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#1
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watts/square foot lighting for dollhouses
could you possibly check
http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9 ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Really hard to get information for dollhouses. cheers Glen |
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#2
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Well that didn't work but here's my question. Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical way to do it for me. small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage. One big light = watts in one hit. Can anyone suggest a starting point? My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting point. Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm looking to a safe starting point. "Glen Sayers" wrote in message news:1120464685.217681@ftpsrv1... could you possibly check http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9 ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Really hard to get information for dollhouses. cheers Glen |
#3
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Glen Sayers wrote:
could you possibly check http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i... T&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Well that didn't work It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another line. You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use TINYURL www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url. Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link: http://tinyurl.com/b5wry but here's my question. Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical way to do it for me. Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work! It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors. If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or room (i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd consider dozens of factors, such as What's the room to be used for? When is it to be used (at night or day)? How good is the residents' eyesight? What kind of ambiance is desired? What color is the decorating scheme? What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking, desk work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows) What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas, Where is the lighting going to be placed? How far away is it from the area to be lighted? Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures? For a dollhouse, some other factors: Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house? What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative) What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse than tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose. What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly different needs. The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow (pun NOT intended) the content of the room. Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If you must measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or teraphotons per nanosecond or ... small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage. One big light = watts in one hit. What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight or a selection of well-placed smaller fixtures? Can anyone suggest a starting point? My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting point. Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted? The floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you need more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it came from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm looking to a safe starting point. There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than any formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden lighting to light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't produce a lot of light, for a realistic look. - Herb |
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Thanks Herb.
The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off one at a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is the missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind. I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn them down. Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly, there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about "how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf - what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go back to a general input rule. With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying, 80watts/pound aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of variations as well but it's a starting point. .. Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an option for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally I look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought to. Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc etc. Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end. Just hope my little girl likes it! "Herb" wrote in message .. . Glen Sayers wrote: could you possibly check http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9 ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Well that didn't work It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another line. You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use TINYURL www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url. Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link: http://tinyurl.com/b5wry but here's my question. Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical way to do it for me. Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work! It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors. If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or room (i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd consider dozens of factors, such as What's the room to be used for? When is it to be used (at night or day)? How good is the residents' eyesight? What kind of ambiance is desired? What color is the decorating scheme? What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking, desk work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows) What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas, Where is the lighting going to be placed? How far away is it from the area to be lighted? Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures? For a dollhouse, some other factors: Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house? What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative) What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse than tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose. What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly different needs. The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow (pun NOT intended) the content of the room. Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If you must measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or teraphotons per nanosecond or ... small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage. One big light = watts in one hit. What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight or a selection of well-placed smaller fixtures? Can anyone suggest a starting point? My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting point. Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted? The floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you need more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it came from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm looking to a safe starting point. There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than any formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden lighting to light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't produce a lot of light, for a realistic look. - Herb |
#5
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On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:55:38 +1200, "Glen Sayers"
wrote: Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly, there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about "how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf - what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go back to a general input rule. Gerry's rule of the "wedding ring finger" - Use a grain of wheat bulb wherever you would put a 60W bulb in the house in which you live. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#6
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Glen -
Based on "average" bulbs and an "average" dollhouse, Cir-Kit offers a "six-room" kit that includes a 10W, 12V transformer (if my memory of high school physics is correct, that's about 800 mA), or about 1.6 watts per room - very close to your estimate. But that won't account for flickering fireplaces, working fountains, working ceiling fans, or faux-fluorescents that are about an inch long and eat up the power. Overall, the big difference between a dollhouse and reality is that the dollhouse is for looking AT, so you do what looks good from the outside. It's the brightness of each individual bulb that matters, not the total - too bright and it will be glary and distracting. Too dim and it will look ... too dim. Illumination is NOT the goal - appearance is! You can't expect overall guidelines any more than you could get guidelines for oil painting. That's why your wife likes the look of your ceiling as is - because it LOOKS GREAT! There are LOTS of basic instructions out there - particularly with regard to electrification. Books, web pages, and more. They're usually in terms of lights per room, and mA per bulb for rating transformer requirements. You're building a scale model, so the thickness of your construction materials should be in scale, not measured for load-bearing. If you're building a toy rather than a scale model, then sturdiness becomes more important. Anyway, time to go enjoy an Independence Day BBQ! - Herb Thanks Herb. The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off one at a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is the missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind. I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn them down. Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly, there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about "how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf - what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go back to a general input rule. With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying, 80watts/pound aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of variations as well but it's a starting point. . Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an option for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally I look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought to. Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc etc. Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end. Just hope my little girl likes it! "Herb" wrote in message .. . Glen Sayers wrote: could you possibly check http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9 ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Well that didn't work It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another line. You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use TINYURL www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url. Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link: http://tinyurl.com/b5wry but here's my question. Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical way to do it for me. Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work! It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors. If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or room (i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd consider dozens of factors, such as What's the room to be used for? When is it to be used (at night or day)? How good is the residents' eyesight? What kind of ambiance is desired? What color is the decorating scheme? What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking, desk work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows) What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas, Where is the lighting going to be placed? How far away is it from the area to be lighted? Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures? For a dollhouse, some other factors: Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house? What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative) What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse than tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose. What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly different needs. The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow (pun NOT intended) the content of the room. Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If you must measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or teraphotons per nanosecond or ... small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage. One big light = watts in one hit. What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight or a selection of well-placed smaller fixtures? Can anyone suggest a starting point? My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting point. Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted? The floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you need more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it came from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm looking to a safe starting point. There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than any formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden lighting to light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't produce a lot of light, for a realistic look. - Herb |
#7
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Awww crap. Working fountains! noone said I could have a working fountain!!!
I love water features, built a big waterfall, pond and bridge in the back yard. Ok a couple of things First, one bonus of multiple down lighting was that when I stuck my hands in the room there were no discernable shadows preventing me seeing what I was doing while I placed things. Secondly, thanks for the advice from both Heb and Gerald. Seems I am on the right track. If a grain of wheat bulb is about a 60 watt bulb true life, what might be a 100 watt bulb? Last, changing topics Talk about Common Sense. After I placed a few toys in my light box to get an idea of brightness I let my little girl ( one year five months ) have a play to see what she did. Her solution to the toys strategically placed in the box? Climb right on in and pull them all to the front. Ever seen a one year old climb into a box 1"x1.5"x2"deep? Almost died laughing. But now I can see that my carefully placed bedrooms on the upper floor will have everything taken out of them and put into what I thought was going to be the family room. OH well, it's her toy I guess. And my lights performed well. The bulbs quietly pushed up into the holder while she played (climbed in) and dropped back down when she pulled out. Very satisfying. "Herb" wrote in message . .. Glen - Based on "average" bulbs and an "average" dollhouse, Cir-Kit offers a "six-room" kit that includes a 10W, 12V transformer (if my memory of high school physics is correct, that's about 800 mA), or about 1.6 watts per room - very close to your estimate. But that won't account for flickering fireplaces, working fountains, working ceiling fans, or faux-fluorescents that are about an inch long and eat up the power. Overall, the big difference between a dollhouse and reality is that the dollhouse is for looking AT, so you do what looks good from the outside. It's the brightness of each individual bulb that matters, not the total - too bright and it will be glary and distracting. Too dim and it will look ... too dim. Illumination is NOT the goal - appearance is! You can't expect overall guidelines any more than you could get guidelines for oil painting. That's why your wife likes the look of your ceiling as is - because it LOOKS GREAT! There are LOTS of basic instructions out there - particularly with regard to electrification. Books, web pages, and more. They're usually in terms of lights per room, and mA per bulb for rating transformer requirements. You're building a scale model, so the thickness of your construction materials should be in scale, not measured for load-bearing. If you're building a toy rather than a scale model, then sturdiness becomes more important. Anyway, time to go enjoy an Independence Day BBQ! - Herb Thanks Herb. The huge array of lights in the test box was so I could turn some off one at a time (eight are switched) until I got down to what I want. Trouble is the missus saw them and just went "Oh I want them all" so I came looking for some sort of guide lines so I could talk her out of some. Never mind. I'm on a $300 pawer supply (don't ask) so if it's too bright I can turn them down. Someone should come up with some guide lines though because, quite frankly, there really is little information out there for the absolute beginner about "how much of what" for anything. (that was general!) I mean, using mdf - what thickness, picking a transformer - watts - ft2 (i say that because if your using 3v as some seem to bulbs become another issue again unless you go back to a general input rule. With planes we say, generally, 50watts/pound, sport flying, 80watts/pound aerobatic and 100-120watts 3d/pound . Now we have all sorts of variations as well but it's a starting point. . Just seems that the only way to learn is buy a kit. and that's not an option for all. (I've never bought a plane or boat kit, it's just me.) Ideally I look at some existing examples but that's proving harder than I thought to. Just missed the big Easter display because I didn't know it was on etc etc. Anyway. It's all fun and just toys in the end. Just hope my little girl likes it! "Herb" wrote in message .. . Glen Sayers wrote: could you possibly check http://www.allthingsmini.com/forum/i...9a7bd73eba7ee9 ad0&act=ST&f=28&t=1084 and make comment? Well that didn't work It worked just fine - because the URL is so long, it wrapped to another line. You have to cut and paste the url back together. A trick is to use TINYURL www.tinyurl.com that will create a very small, PERMANENT substitute url. Here's the TinyURL equivalent to your link: http://tinyurl.com/b5wry but here's my question. Now working on finalising lighting. There really don't seem to be any written suggestions out there. i.e. watts per square foot seems a logical way to do it for me. Ahh.. We have the engineering mind at work! It's not an engineering question, but one of artistic and human factors. If you were an architect designing the lighting for a 1:1 scale house or room (i.e., a REAL one), you certainly wouldn't use some fixed ratio. You'd consider dozens of factors, such as What's the room to be used for? When is it to be used (at night or day)? How good is the residents' eyesight? What kind of ambiance is desired? What color is the decorating scheme? What is the purpose of the lighting? (Not to fall down when walking, desk work, watching TV, reading, cocktail parties, light shows) What KIND of lighting - overall even, spotlighted areas, Where is the lighting going to be placed? How far away is it from the area to be lighted? Are we talking about built-in lighting or separate fixtures? For a dollhouse, some other factors: Where will it be located - what's the lighting OUTSIDE of the house? What's the purpose of the lighting? (Visibility, realism, decorative) What kind of maintenance is needed or possible? There's nothing worse than tearing up floors and ceilings because a connection came loose. What's the dollhouse for? - a plaything and a showpiece have vastly different needs. The array of lights in your photo is very impressive - it may overshadow (pun NOT intended) the content of the room. Wattage isn't a measure of light, but of power. A 20 Watt fluorescent bulb produces the same amount of light output as a 60 Watt incandescent. If you must measure the light, you need to measure it in lumens or candlepower or teraphotons per nanosecond or ... small lights, low power = more lights to get up to a recommended wattage. One big light = watts in one hit. What would you do in your own house or flat? Use one megawatt floodlight or a selection of well-placed smaller fixtures? Can anyone suggest a starting point? My conclusion is 1.73 watts/square foot would make an acceptable starting point. Per square foot ... a pretty meaningless measure - what is being lighted? The floor? And then where are the lights? If you're lighting the floor, you need more generated lumens if the lighting comes from the ceiling than if it came from table lamps - or in-the-floor panel lights Yes I realize there are lots of variations like types of bulb but I'm looking to a safe starting point. There is none. Your basic judgement and instinct will be far better than any formula! What LOOKS right? We sometimes use a combination - hidden lighting to light up a room for being viewed, plus lamps and fixtures that don't produce a lot of light, for a realistic look. - Herb |
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#9
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Hello Glen, Just had to say what a fantastic job you're doing on your house project; I've really enjoyed reading through your web page. Glad your staircase finally arrived! Please let us know when you add more pics. Jackie http://tinyurl.com/b5wry |
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