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OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 28th 06, 04:12 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Tricia
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 217
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia

Ads
  #2  
Old August 28th 06, 04:19 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Karen, Queen of Squishies
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,741
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

I learned it from a Mary Kay consultant. All of them are trained in showing
you how to choose the right colors for your complexion, and how to properly
apply it to make yourself look amazing!

Karen, Queen of Squishies



Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia



  #3  
Old August 28th 06, 04:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Georg
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 137
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" ratherthan a "girl"?

Tricia wrote:
Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?


I learned 75% of my make up expertise in the theater. The rest I picked
up watching my mom or my older sister or my friends.

One learning experience that I can recommend is to go to any make up
counter where someone is paid to offer makeovers. Or call Mary Kay or
Avon and ask them to come to your house for a facial/sample. These
people will be very happy to take the time to teach you how to use their
products. Of course, their goal is to sell you their products- but you
do not have to buy anything.

I still hate wearing make up and only do it very rarely. But I know how
to apply it without a spackling knife or looking weird.

-georg
  #4  
Old August 28th 06, 05:02 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Polly Esther
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

My goodness. Let's see if I got all of that: flyaway hair, pimples,
overweight and no makeup. Yes, indeed, sweet Tricia, you've hit the nail on
the head.
I wouldn't be tempted to hire anyone who gave the impression that she
didn't give a happy hoot how she looked. I'd think if you didn't care about
that, then you wouldn't care how the job you did looked either. That's a
tacky criteria but first impressions are so very important.
DH just paused by here and asked what was going on with the quilters
today. I told him, and I told him my reaction.
DH says, "You're a big help". Heck. What am I supposed to do? Tell
you it doesn't matter? Nope. Let's Do something.
Start asking women whose hair you admire who their stylist is. Try a
couple. I'll bet there's one who can do wonders for you. And yes, make an
appointment with your Mary Kay lady when you and she are unhurried. Those
ladies know their business.
We're going to get your 'best foot forward' if we have to bring a few
gators and personally take over. We shall overcome. Polly



"Karen, Queen of Squishies" wrote I learned it from a Mary Kay consultant.
All of them are trained in showing
you how to choose the right colors for your complexion, and how to
properly apply it to make yourself look amazing!



  #5  
Old August 28th 06, 05:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
JustJoanQuilts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

I know where you are coming from. I can't count how many times I have
been asked, 'why don't you wear make-up, have you ever . . ., etc.,
etc.' On my wedding day at the reception, my aunt pinned me to the
wall to put a little color on my face. I have always said I don't like
wearing it but in reality, I was just never any good at it so gave up
on it. My mom didn't wear any and told me the same thing about how I
was perfect the way God made me! My dad wouldn't let me get my ears
pierced because God gave me all the holes I needed. So I did it myself
and he never said a word about it. My parents were good parents but
not very good with what I was going through as a teen. Just a phase
and all that. I just want to say that I feel that same disconnect
between being a girl and an adult but it's not just about the make-up,
that's just on the surface. These feelings for me are much deeper and
at the age of 48, I wonder if I will ever feel like or be treated like
a grown up since I don't much look like one and don't really behave
like most adults I know. Life is too short to be so serious and I
refuse to conform. Maybe that is the artist within, whatever it is, I
don't know. But I have to agree with the whole hiring aspect, I don't
look like people think I should and that can be a deterrent in many
aspects of getting the better job!! I could write more but I have to
go to my little peon job so TTFN....

Joan from GA for the moment


Tricia wrote:

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia


  #6  
Old August 28th 06, 05:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Kate Dicey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 647
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" ratherthan a "girl"?

Tricia wrote:

No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.


I won't take offence. I think I know what you are stumbling towards,
though it was never an issue for me in Those Days. I had an unusually
stable family background coupled with an unusually peripatetic
lifestyle, which lead to early but uneven maturity and a lasting ability
to refuse to grow up completely! I've now given up growing up - that's
a kid's game!

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.


The make-up stuff is just practice and experimentation, like quilting.
VERY like quilting! You find colours and styles that you like and
experiment until you modify them to suit you, and then you keep doing
them until you get good at it. Then you can slowly modify them again as
you mature/change/whatever...

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.


I don't, and never have (even as a student teacher!) worn make-up in
school, not since I was a kid and a pupil with faaaaaar too much time on
my hands at boarding school!! No-one ever commented, not wearing it
never lost me a job, and it didn't lose me the respect of colleagues.
But then I always knew who and what I was, what I was doing, and had the
confidence to carry it off. I think it has a lot to do with your sense
of self worth and your self image rather than the war paint as such.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).


The weight and the spots may have more to do with it than the lack of
make-up, but again, I suspect your projection of yourself rather than
how you look: if *you* see these as disadvantages, they will be. I
didn't find my excess weight to be a problem in getting a job, but it
might be if it affects your mobility and you get breathless stomping up
stairs. Personally, even if hormonally induced, I wouldn't be
slastering my face with make-up if the spots were on the rampage. I'd
be avoiding it more than ever, and pestering the quack for a solution.

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.


These are about the only times I bother with make-up these days - and
I'm pushing 50! Clear skin and a good moisturiser are far better for
you than an inch of slap! Mind you, I have dark eyes, lashes and
brows, and colour in my cheeks. If you are fair to mousey with lightly
marked brows and not a lot of colour in you, you may find a little
subtle help goes a long way.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?


Originally my knowledge and expertise came from experimentation at the
age of 13-14... My mum was a lot of help, as she knew I had reactionary
skin (flared up at the slightest provokation, in itchy blotches and
lumps!), and she steered me clear of the cheap and nasty end of the market.

These days when I do access the war paint, I tend to use a light tinted
moisturiser (I like the Nivea Visage ones), good quality eye make-up
(Clinique, Dior, Guerlaine, and Lancome), and Maybeline or Miners
mascara. For some reason all the 'really good' makes of make-up do
really crap mascara!

Just buy a little, some good cleanser that suits your skin, and some
decent brushes (make up artists use sable paint brushes, not 'make-up'
brushes!) and have fun!
--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
  #7  
Old August 28th 06, 05:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Taria
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 432
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" ratherthan a "girl"?

I was lucky. My folks were married over 50 years and dad treated mom
like a queen. I was lucky to choose well in my husband although out
of 5 girls only 2 of us did that. My mom never much wore anything but
lipstick when I was a kid. Her only sister would not be seen without
full make up on. Folks always guessed mom the younger even though she
was 7 years older. She didn't lay out in the sun though.

I wear make up a lot less than I used to. Not for casual days around
the house or grocery but I will for lunch or visiting and meetings and
such. I feel more polished when I have make up on. I feel prettier. If
you feel prettier you will look prettier imo. I didn't wear make up as a
young teen but worked at a dept store as and older teen. The
make up gals are really well trained. Meet them, talk to them, learn
from them. In my early 20's several of us gals went to modeling school.
I learned a lot about makeup, hair, how to walk in heels (most women
have no clue) and all kinds of things you might not think about. It
was fun. I am not now or never was a model but it is good to know this
stuff and then use what you like. You should look good wearing make up
not painted. Have fun with it though. Once you get it right you'll
feel good and enjoy it. The hair thing is tough for me too. I am
pretty clutzy and have thin, fine hair. Ask folks that have nice do's
who does their hair. Go into a salon and look at their books.
DOn't be afraid of the whole mess. HAve fun with it. You need to put
a good attitude in your mind too.
Taria


Tricia wrote:
No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia


  #8  
Old August 28th 06, 06:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Julia in MN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 123
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" ratherthan a "girl"?

Or if you have a BeautiControl consultant in your area, give her a call.
They also help with wardrobe colors. Department store makeup counters
can also help.

Julia in MN

Karen, Queen of Squishies wrote:
I learned it from a Mary Kay consultant. All of them are trained in showing
you how to choose the right colors for your complexion, and how to properly
apply it to make yourself look amazing!

Karen, Queen of Squishies



Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia





--
This message has been scanned for viruses by Norton Anti-Virus

http://webpages.charter.net/jaccola/

  #9  
Old August 28th 06, 07:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
Sandy Foster
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 926
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

In article . com,
"Tricia" wrote:

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?


Tricia, I think you're getting lots of good input here, and I'm just
going to add a little bit to that. I'm the type who doesn't feel dressed
without makeup. G

First, go to a *really* good makeup counter in a big store for a free
make-up lesson. You may have to buy one or two little things (unless
you're stronger than I am g), but it will be worth it. Those gals
really know their stuff. I had a Mary Kay makeover once -- she'd had
next to no training, and it showed. Once you see how the makeup is
applied, you can decide whether to do it exactly the same way or to tone
it down just a bit or to ramp it up a notch. Invest in some little
makeup sponges; they're worth their weight in gold for blending,
blending, blending so you don't get the "clown effect". g

As for your hair, make an appointment with a hair stylist whose work you
admire -- preferably one who has done hair similar to yours. Not
everyone has easily-styled hair (I don't), and you need to learn how to
work with the kind you have. Once you find a style you like and can
maintain (and that your hair will condescend to work with), you can keep
going to whatever hair stylist you've discovered does the best job for
*your* hair.

Good luck! As Polly says, first impressions are so very important. The
lack of makeup doesn't mean you're not a good person, but you only get
that one chance to make a good first impression. People can't help being
swayed by appearances.
--
Sandy in Henderson, near Las Vegas
my ISP is earthlink.net -- put sfoster1(at) in front
http://home.earthlink.net/~sfoster1

AKA Dame Sandy, Minister of Education
  #10  
Old August 28th 06, 07:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.quilting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 74
Default OT proposed discussion: How did you learn to be a "woman" rather than a "girl"?

This is coming from a "girl" who doesn't often wear any kind of makeup:

I didn't learn (and my teenage years were no more screwed up than
anyone elses - I just was not interested) to wear makeup or do my hair
nicely.

These days, I tie my hair back for work (there are some great
accessories, clips etc out there) and if I'm doing something special I
might get my lashes dyed (I seem to remember that this is not an
(legal) option in the US, but in Europe, it works fine) - that way
there is no self-induced pressure to try to mix mascara with wearing
glasses, I tried that enough to realise it doesn't work for me. Oh, and
slap on some lipstick for special occassions.

Oh well. I do try to pay some attention to wearing clothes that suits
me (when not on vacation at least!), but that is about it.

Other already gave some advice about how you could seek help in
learning. I used to sometimes think about learning, but now it is _way_
down my list of what might make me feel even better about myself, so
for me it is not going to happen anytime soon :-)

Hanne (normally) in London


Tricia wrote:
No offense to our male readers/quilters, but this topic is weighing on
my mind right now and needs discussing AFAIC....Also, right away, let
me say, I know there is much more to being a woman than make up and
hair styles and such. Those other (and yes, much more important)
things AREN'T the things I want to discuss in this thread. I had
*great* role models for being a strong, self-sufficient (and
self-sacrificing) woman. Please don't flame me for trivalizing what it
means to be a woman. If you find this topic offensive, I'm sorry, I
don't mean to offend anyone or incite a riot.

I think most of us would probably say that the teen years is the WHEN
in regards to learning to be a "woman" rather than a "girl". During my
teen years my life was pretty screwed up (mom and stepass getting
divorced, long lost father back in my life, acquiring a stepmother,
living with an abusive alcoholic, etc. PLUS all the usual teen angst
issues). Somewhat as a result (I think) something "short circuited" in
my development in *how* to be a woman rather than a girl, or rather in
some other regards, being an adult vs a child. I didn't have role
models for what I'm facing now in any regard.

Specific to the Woman v Girl thing, I know virtually nothing about make
up, let alone how to properly apply it so I don't look like clown or
tramp. Forget trying to style my hair (although I have a little more
knowledge on that) in anything other than a basic flyaway ponytail --
it's basically not happening (these days it's more like getting me to
do anything other than use a headband 'cause it only makes a stubby
tail). Occassionally I get a perm. I can't manage to use curlers to
save my soul, not even the nice heated ones DH got me a few years ago
at my request. Basically when it comes to being "pretty", "feminine",
and "done up", I friggin' suck.

Part of it is having been raised with the mantra that God blessed me
and I didn't need make up and stuff to mask it all. For the most part,
I believe the philosophy (in the sense that we are the way we are
supposed to be, etc.) and while I tended to leave God out of it,
frequently shared that philosophy with my students (middle schoolers)
when the question inevitably came up why I was one of maybe two or
three female teachers in our building who didn't wear make-up. That
was fine in that enviroment -- I might have gotten more respect from
some of the adults I dealt with if I had been "done up" but I got
through it okay.

I suspect something that is hindering my ability to get hired lately is
the fact that I don't "do" make up and such -- with my baby face (and
unfortunately being noticably overweight), I tend to look younger than
my age, which at times translates for some (I suspect) as flighty or
incompetent. -- or like I just "don't care" (current hormone issues
resulting in pimples doesn't help dispel that myth either).

Besides the employment issue, I have been pondering trying to find out
how to "do" make up properly for a while now -- simply so I *can* do it
when the mood/situation strikes -- like going out for a nice evening
with my husband or to a wedding, etc.

Hence, realizing I have virtually no knowledge in an area many women
seem to have plenty, I thought I'd ask where that knowledge came
from...where did you learn it?

Pondering,
Tricia


 




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