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#11
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Antique Jewelry
Peter W. Rowe wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:30:08 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ganesh wrote: This one's very easy to make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:We...uvre_AC924.jpg with modern tools and methods, yes. Doing it with starting raw materials and tools available to the 7th century byzantine goldsmith might be a bit more daunting. A ring like that, for example, likely was not cast, so one would need to have some skill with chisels or engraving tools to do the carving, and the steel back then wasn't as good, not to mention the fact that the goldsmith would have had to make his own tools beforehand. Remember, files for shaping metal were not yet available either. Most forming would be with hammers... And you couldn't just go to your metals dealer and buy ready to use sheet or wire... Also, the niello (black) inlay isn't quite as simple to do as might seem, especially with ancient technologies. Doable? certainly. But I think I'd take the word "very" out from your sentance... Peter An interesting question, how easy was it for a 7th cent Byzantine gold smith to make? He could either, have cast it, or wrought it from a single piece of metal.or at least acouple of pieces then soldered it together. Considering the former first, Casting of metals had been well established for at least 3000 yrs before the 7th cent. witnessed by the thousands of everyday cast bronze age artifacts that have been found here in the UK and elsewhere so my guess is it was cast first of all then chased up with chisels and punches. The intaglio design would have been cut with chisels and then with punches. A well established technique used in coin reverse punch making. Look at this metalworking practice in the coinage of this period and earlier to understand this process.. . most medieval metal workers were multiskilled and drew on the expertise in other metalworking areas.more then than we do today. So was it wrought? Considering how malleable gold is, it would be quite possible to take a piece of alluvial gold and with hammers , punches, and just a bronze mandrel form it first into a round disk with a upstand across the diameter. This section could then have been pierced with a punch and stretched over a mandrel to form the shank. An intersting exercise would be to take a piece of lead to try and replicate this way of forming this ring completly cold, ie without any heat. Then when one was able to replicate this design in this way, do it again in fine silver. then in gold. As to the carat quality of the original ring , our assay office in london currently uses spectrographic analysis of metal alloys using only the minutest quantity of the original metal. Do you Peter get the annual Goldsmiths Review, published by the Goldsmith s Co in London? The current issue has an interesting study of the assay offices work in a large forgery case of early English silver. they run the assay offices in the UK. They could tell exactly what the metal constituents were. If the ring in question is fine gold it would be ductile enough to forge up cold using the above technique. The niello formula and inlay technique is well documented in Uppi Untrachat's book on jewellery making through the ages. Tho I havent looked at this book on my shelf for sometime. Anyone have the time to run some trials? Regards to all. Ted In Dorset Uk |
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#12
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Antique Jewelry
Ted Frater wrote:
so my guess is it was cast first of all then chased up with chisels and punches. The intaglio design would have been cut with chisels and then with punches. I don't know when they invented gravers and chisels hard enough to work metals and long lasting enough to be economic. They're certainly in the medieval pictures in the British Museum 'Goldsmith's' book but I think all the earlier pictures show only punches. A well established technique used in coin reverse punch making. Look at this metalworking practice in the coinage of this period and earlier to understand this process.. . most medieval metal workers were multiskilled and drew on the expertise in other metalworking areas.more then than we do today. That's something to do with the goldsmiths being the leaders in the 'whitesmiths' group of skills. They'd have spent a lot of time socialising with other people who worked metals cold. The current issue has an interesting study of the assay offices work in a large forgery case of early English silver. Assuming you're talking about what has become known as 'The Ashley-Russell case, does anyone know who actually made that stuff? It's all very good indeed. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#13
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Antique Jewelry
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:02:27 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater
wrote: Do you Peter get the annual Goldsmiths Review, published by the Goldsmith s Co in London? The current issue has an interesting study of the assay offices work in a large forgery case of early English silver. No I don't. Hadn't heard of it before. Any idea what the cost is? Peter |
#14
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Antique Jewelry
Peter W. Rowe wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:02:27 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater wrote: Do you Peter get the annual Goldsmiths Review, published by the Goldsmith s Co in London? The current issue has an interesting study of the assay offices work in a large forgery case of early English silver. No I don't. Hadn't heard of it before. Any idea what the cost is? Five pounds plus postage Details here http://www.thegoldsmiths.co.uk/theli...blications.htm -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#15
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Antique Jewelry
Peter W. Rowe wrote:
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:02:27 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Ted Frater wrote: Do you Peter get the annual Goldsmiths Review, published by the Goldsmith s Co in London? The current issue has an interesting study of the assay offices work a large forgery case of early English silver. No I don't. Hadn't heard of it before. Any idea what the cost is? Peter Peter, Google for ISSN 0953- 0355 Youll see the current issue. This is the Annual report of the goldsmiths company the livery co in the city of London. They have the task of regulating the quality of all noble metal jewellery, plate and objet de art made in the Uk. they have this authority under the UK hall marking acts. this annual review is a record of their annual work. You might just be able to see the current copy at your local library. Cost =A35.00 per annum. If you can mail me off list your snail mail addres Ill see if they can send you a complimentary copy. Yes to Bill Black, the Ashley Russel case. Of 120 fake boson's calls. Ted. |
#16
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Antique Jewelry
Ganesh wrote:
She is Maharani Jind Kaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jind_Kaur) is mother of Maharaja Duleep Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duleep_Singh) and wife of Maharaja Ranjit Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranjit_Singh) I've read a bit about her before, she's supposed to have worn the Koh-i-Noor diamond in her navel. That diamond is famously in the Jewel House at HM Tower of London. The rest of the stuff is now almost certainly in the V&A, as I mentioned previously. In the unlikely event that it isn't then they'll certainly know what happened to it all. -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
#17
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Antique Jewelry
On Sep 2, 10:42pm, William Black wrote:
Ganesh wrote: She is Maharani Jind Kaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jind_Kaur) is mother of Maharaja Duleep Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duleep_Singh) and wife of Maharaja Ranjit Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranjit_Singh) I've read a bit about her before, she's supposed to have worn the Koh-i-Noor diamond in her navel. I do not know if she used to wear that around her navel never heard about it. But it is heard that only with a women the stone can be safe with. Also, I think Maharaja Ranjit Singh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranjit_Singh) is the one who donated the gold that is Golden temple at Amritsar covered with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Go...kal_Takhat.JPG there are strange things heard about that stone. |
#18
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Antique Jewelry
On Oct 10, 7:10 am, William Black wrote:
The last couple of times Indian millionaires bought bits of looted Indian heritage and then tried to bring them back to India and give them to the state the Indian government promptly announced that they'd be charing the owner the full rate of import duty and local taxes. So Indian millionaires seem to have stopped doing that... Well, they are more interested in things like these if there is lot of mileage associated with it. This necklace did not have lot of press coverage and it seems not lot know she was the one originally possessing the kohinoor. |
#19
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Antique Jewelry
On Oct 10, 7:10 am, William Black wrote:
Ganesh wrote: On Sep 2, 3:26pm, Ganesh wrote: Possibly this necklace is getting auctioned on this 8th http://tinyurl.com/ybnu4kn wonder who's going to buy it... wish someone from India buys that The last couple of times Indian millionaires bought bits of looted Indian heritage and then tried to bring them back to India and give them to the state the Indian government promptly announced that they'd be charing the owner the full rate of import duty and local taxes. So Indian millionaires seem to have stopped doing that... Correction Some one bought it "for 55,200 pounds, inclusive of Buyer's Premium" just check http://tinyurl.com/ybnu4kn wonder who bought it |
#20
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Antique Jewelry
Ganesh wrote:
On Oct 10, 7:10 am, William Black wrote: The last couple of times Indian millionaires bought bits of looted Indian heritage and then tried to bring them back to India and give them to the state the Indian government promptly announced that they'd be charing the owner the full rate of import duty and local taxes. So Indian millionaires seem to have stopped doing that... Well, they are more interested in things like these if there is lot of mileage associated with it. This necklace did not have lot of press coverage and it seems not lot know she was the one originally possessing the kohinoor. Well both her and it feature in a best selling book... -- William Black "Any number under six" The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat single handed with a quarterstaff. |
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