Traditional Dutch Fishermen's Sweaters

Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the
Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little
"book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested:
http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/

I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if
this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out
for.

VP

In the many years that i was lucky to recieve `Ariadne` , published by
my Great Uncle Elias Cohen . I read many articles about Dutch Knitting
as well as Dutch embroidery.
They were like their Neighbours over the Channel always a sea
traveling nation ,,, with all the NEEDED clothing items.
mirjam

Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the
Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little
"book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested:
http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/

I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if
this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out
for.

VP

Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and,
traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters that
were knit large and felted?

The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does not
have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same
period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I do
not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the
area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die
fast.

TIA

Aaron


"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
ups.com...
Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the
Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little
"book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested:
http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/

I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if
this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out
for.

VP

Why am i NOT surprised that a fellow proposed it ,,,,, ?
reaoning of life ways,,,, would be that some woolen items [sweaters
socks etc,,,,,, were `felted` by the many years of use and washing
,,,, i don`t think any 'Dutch Person" knitttig will on purpose knit
Bigger than needed, when materials were scarce ,,,,,
mirjam
wrote:

Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and,
traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters that
were knit large and felted?

The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does not
have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same
period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I do
not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the
area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die
fast.

TIA

Aaron


"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
oups.com...
Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the
Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little
"book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested:
http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/

I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if
this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out
for.

VP

Think of a fisherman's gansey as a capital investment in survival gear to
keep a worker alive while he works a high risk - high profit job in an
extreme environment. The amount that they were willing to invest depended
on their valuation of the worker's life.

A certain amount of wool was needed to keep a fisherman warm. It could be
knit small and tight, or it could be knit large and felted small. The amount
of wool would be the same, all that changes is the manner of fabrication.

If the only job your husband and son could get was fishing, how much effort
would you put into providing them with garments that were warm enough to
keep them alive? Their shares from fishing might be most of the family's
income. If they freeze in their fishing dory, the family at home gets
nothing. Then, how much effort does a wife and mother then put into the
knitting that keeps her men alive? against a man's life, and years of
income, a few ounces of wool and a few extra hours of knitting effort (or
felting effort) are a worth while investment.

Aaron



"Mirjam Bruck-Cohen" wrote in message
...
Why am i NOT surprised that a fellow proposed it ,,,,, ?
reaoning of life ways,,,, would be that some woolen items [sweaters
socks etc,,,,,, were `felted` by the many years of use and washing
,,,, i don`t think any 'Dutch Person" knitttig will on purpose knit
Bigger than needed, when materials were scarce ,,,,,
mirjam
wrote:

Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size? I know of traditions of socks that were felted; and,
traditions of mittens that were felted and worn wet, but whole sweaters
that
were knit large and felted?

The fellow who proposed this was a curator at a museum. The museum does
not
have any examples, and when I look at photos of fishermen from the same
period that sailed out of a port only 100 miles from the subject port, I
do
not see ANY evidence of felting. Knitters and knitting shop owners in the
area do not seem to be aware of such a tradition, but such traditions die
fast.

TIA

Aaron


"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
roups.com...
Those of you who enjoy the history of fishermen's sweaters may be
interested in a book I recently acquired: "Knitting from the
Netherlands" by Henriette van der Klift-Tellegen. I've put a little
"book review" of sorts on my site if you are inerested:
http://vintagepurls.net.nz/2007/07/0...e-netherlands/

I suspect it's not easy to come across (mine is second hand) but if
this is your sort of thing it's probably something to keep an eye out
for.

VP

On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size?

van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and
Spakenburg:
"owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner
one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were
"felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof.
An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least
twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot
water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original
size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and
windproof." (pages 39-40)

A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles
felt".

I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore
and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional
photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea
sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic
evidence exists for this reason.

VP

Many people that see my gansey have to be convinced that it is not felted.
They just assume that anything that tight MUST have been felted.

Much of a seaman's / fisherman's duties involved heavy labor with the arms -
rowing, hauling, furling sails.... One virtue of knitting is that it can
accommodate motion. I wonder if felted material could accommodate the
motion? I feel an experiment coming on!

Aaron
"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large,
and
felted to size?

van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and
Spakenburg:
"owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner
one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were
"felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof.
An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least
twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot
water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original
size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and
windproof." (pages 39-40)

A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles
felt".

I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore
and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional
photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea
sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic
evidence exists for this reason.

VP

On Jul 12, 6:34 am, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Many people that see my gansey have to be convinced that it is not felted.
They just assume that anything that tight MUST have been felted.

The felted sweaters in "Knitting from the Netherlands" don't look
tight, they look felted. They look very thick and stiff. All of the
studio photos show men in fine "fishermen's sweaters" that would have
never seen a boat in their lives - these sweaters were for Sunday
best. No one would have worn their work jersey for a formal portrait.
The photos that show fishermen at work (of which there are many less
for obvious reasons) show men in grubby, thick, chunky jerseys.

van der Klift-Tellegen seems to have consulted local people in each
area and asked for their recollections and photos. Although this can't
be considered 100% reliable she does seem to avoid falling into the
trap of repeating "mainstream" history and clearly attempted to
discover the history herself from the practitioners (or their nearest
decendents).

VP

Would you consider the photos on
http://gansey.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html to look knitted or
felted?

It was knitted, but most knitters that touch and feel it, make a comment
that it must be felted. It is not - yet!

That gansey is now navy blue. I wore it as I chatted with enactors on the
ramparts of Louisburg. In their replicas of 1744 French Army uniforms with
BOILED wool coats, the enactors' finger tips were blue and their teeth were
chattering. My wife was wearing two layers of Patagonia pile under a
mountain parka and was also warm enough. I was wearing the gansey over a
jersey. I was warm and had more freedom of motion than either the enactors
or my wife. (We were actually out in the wind longer than any of the
enactors.) The wind on the walls of Louisburg did inspire me to knit a
warmer hat for myself in preparation for my cod fishing trip.

That gansey has now been cod fishing on the banks off PEI and sailing on the
Bluenose II. I wore it hiking in the rain and mist as we looked for moose,
and as we sat on the headlands of Cape Breton watching pilot whales in the
white capped waters below. The coldest place I wore it was on the beach
where Cabot is said to have first landed in the New World. The warmest
place that I wore it was drinking beer at a sidewalk pub in Halifax.

The firmness of the gansey fabric along with the loose sleeves allows it to
vent through the large neck opening in warmer (60F) conditions. This
venting is dramatically reduced by wearing a garment under the gansey, or
carrying a backpack. (Note however that the gansey, fits snugger than many
modern "fishermen's sweaters".) Otherwise, I have never owned a garment
that was so comfortable in such a variety of different weather. If I had not
knitted it myself, I would say it was magic. It was worth every hour of its
knitting. It gets worn a lot!

I cannot knit that tight with circular needles. (At least not without
eventually ruining my wrists.) Gansey needles and knitting sheaths are still
a marvel of technology.

I bought a fist full of DPN as I geared up for the trip. Wooden needles
are good for not dropping stitches while knitting on the go, but steel
needles are faster. Air security did not take my needles away from me - not
even the 7" steel DPN, but on the plane, I ended up knitting with wooden
needles. (I did check the gansey needles.)

Oh, and the little bands that they put around lobster claws are perfect for
keeping stitches on your needles. Lets see, for 4 needles you will need 8
bands - as if we needed another reason for eating lobster! LOL

Aaron

"Vintage Purls" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 12, 6:34 am, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:
Many people that see my gansey have to be convinced that it is not
felted.
They just assume that anything that tight MUST have been felted.

The felted sweaters in "Knitting from the Netherlands" don't look
tight, they look felted. They look very thick and stiff. All of the
studio photos show men in fine "fishermen's sweaters" that would have
never seen a boat in their lives - these sweaters were for Sunday
best. No one would have worn their work jersey for a formal portrait.
The photos that show fishermen at work (of which there are many less
for obvious reasons) show men in grubby, thick, chunky jerseys.

van der Klift-Tellegen seems to have consulted local people in each
area and asked for their recollections and photos. Although this can't
be considered 100% reliable she does seem to avoid falling into the
trap of repeating "mainstream" history and clearly attempted to
discover the history herself from the practitioners (or their nearest
decendents).

VP

On Jul 11, 1:00 am, Vintage Purls wrote:
On Jul 11, 12:41 pm, "Aaron Lewis" wrote:

Has anybody ever hear of "fisherman's sweaters" that were knit large, and
felted to size?

van der Klift-Tellegen claims that fishermen from Bunschoten and
Spakenburg:
"owned two kinds of sweaters: a heavy one to wear at sea and a thinner
one for onshore wear: the Sunday sweater. The sea sweaters were
"felted," treated in a special way to make them wind-and-water-proof.
An oversized sweater was knit with heavy sajet, a sweater at least
twice the desired size. The sweater was then submerged in a tub of hot
water and rubbed and punched until it shrank to half its original
size. The result was a piece of clothing heavy as lead, water and
windproof." (pages 39-40)

A photo on page 36 shows a man whose sweater "strongly resembles
felt".

I also note that she claims that sea sweaters were never worn on shore
and may of the photos in her book show men posing for a professional
photographer - clearly you wouldn't pose for a photo in your sea
sweater but rather your sunday best. Maybe little photographic
evidence exists for this reason.

VP

However, I have found that historians, especially of the male
persuasion, truly have no idea what women did when making clothing.
Technology historians have come up with, and printed in their
scholarly books, some really bad howlers. Like the one who thinks
that, on a hand-loom, the shuttle traveled in front of the reed and
beater. Like the many who have stated that cloth more than 30 inches
wide required two weavers. Like the one who says that hats from
Urumchi are proven to be knitted because they are made of short
lengths of yarn. Like the many who believe that Arans, which of
course have been made for centuries, were identifiable because the
stitch patterns went by county or village.

Elizabeth Wayland Barber, among others, has stated that women's work
of past centuries was not documented. As a result, the male historian
is at a disadvantage when he stares at a machine, or even the product,
to determine exactly what was done. Heaven forfend that he should ask
an expert, even a man currently in the textile business!

Cece