a new development in Scotland

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 18:30:09 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
wrote:

I have always felt that it should be the buisness owners option as
to whether smoking in the place that they own should be allowed.
Truly public places are of course another matter entirely.

The primary rationale for the Scottish legislation is as a health and
safety issue. NO employer has the right to demand that their workers
should put up with the discomfort and risks of a smoky environment.
The ban on smoking in pubs is not primarily for the customers, it's
for the bar staff.

A workplace where the owner is the sole worker is exempt from the new
controls.

It was interesting to see what happened locally when the ban went in.
See, there are no exemptions like that here. A buisness owner can
apply for a special permit on the grounds that smoking is a part of
their buisness, say a cigar club or somesuch, but that is all.

It is apparent that given a choice people will not patronize a no
smoking club or eatery. Only the specialty places, the franchises,
and places that were doing more buisness than they could handle in the
first place are OK. A LOT of the little places went right out of
buisness, some of the franchises too but there are always more where
they came from. A lot of people started looking for work in
Pennsylvania too, rather than put up with it. Pizza, chinese, and
other places that deliver are doing a booming buisness now. Many have
seen fit to expand their menus.
I expect it is different in the middle of the state where people don't
have an option, but the Pensylvania border is about 10 miles from my
front door and that really shows on the local economy. The town just
over the border thinks the NY smoking ban is the best thing to happen
in the last 50 years, except on Saturday nights.

Clothing stores have always had a heck of a time staying in buisness
here too. If PA ever had a tax on clothes it was well before my time.
NY on the other hand only recently got with the program, like this
year. 8.25% extra or what the price tag says...is that supposed to be
a hard question?

NightMist
--
The wolf that understands fire has much to eat.

Harrah's in Laughlin, NV has a had a non-smoking casino for years and it
really is nice because it is located off the main casino. Unfortunately,
the restaurants are still smoking and you must walk thru the main casino to
get there.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Pauline" wrote in message
m...
The Reno casinos have "non-smoking" sections, but it's not a big help,
cause
the smoke just drifts over to the non-smoking area. I can hardly stand to
go inside a casino anymore & if I do, I just want to hose myself off when
I
come out.

Pat - congrats on your 6 smoke-free years!


--
Pauline
Northern California
"nana2b" wrote in message
...
Yes I remember the smoke in Vegas. One big reason we don't go therevery
much and forget about gambling in that air.

Linda in Tx

We now have no smoking in all public places in nw Arkansas. Its the law -
it's also the law that you can't talk on the phone when you drive but it's
not enforced. Cops say they are too busy.

--
http://community.webshots.com/user/snigdibbly
SNIGDIBBLY
~e~
"
/ \
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/snigdibbly.
http://www.ebaystores.com/snigdibbly...ox&refid=store
"Donna in NE La." wrote in message
...
Florida has No Smoking in public buildings!! We moved to Louisiana from
Florida 2 1/2 years ago and I miss the No Smoking restaurants!! It was
strange to go in and be asked "Smoking orNon?" Wish there was a
non-smoking rule in all restaurants!!

--
Donna in NE La.
"Batik Freak" wrote in message
hlink.net...
Man I really wish the USA would get with the program on smoking - I hate
it. Slowly but surely most good restaurants around here are going to
either totally nonsmoking, or smoking ONLY in the bar, but it will take
(literally) an act of Congress (or possibly an act of the gods...) to get
freedom from smoke in all public places. I keep hearing from
restaurant folk all this whining about "O the smokers won't go out to eat
and we'll lose business." That's just crap. In exactly NONE of the
restaurants I've been to has this happened. Usually, in restaurants
where there IS still smoking, there is a wait for the non-smoking
section. Restauranteurs are getting the clue - last week, I saw a sign at
a die-hard, "family style" restaurant that said WE WILL BE ALL NONSMOKING
ON SUNDAYS. Hopefully it won't be long til every day is Sunday
there.....

L

"Sylvi" wrote in message
...
Aha - but Kiwiland passed that law last year.....good on the Scots for
doing the same...
but I can't see how quilts would smell any better with the aroma of beer
wafting thru them
Quilts in pubs??? Not down here I don't think...but then again, maybe
in a quiet corner....
cheers
Sylvi
sylviald at ihug dot co dot nz



"KJ" wrote in message
news:M6HVf.51300$oL.35147@attbi_s71...
Well, darn. We just missed it by a few months. That law would have
certainly made our trip (albeit very nice) even more memorable.
Congrats to the forward thinking Scots. Lift a glass to better
smelling quilts! Cheers!
KJ

"Jack Campin - bogus address" wrote in message
...
The ban on smoking in public places in Scotland came into force today.
I was playing at an afternoon folk session, the difference was amazing
(mainly, people talk much more quietly when they're not smoking, so we
could hear what we were doing a lot better - more details in a post I
made to uk.music.folk and rec.travel.europe).

Marion has occasionally tried handquilting in Bell's while I'm
playing.
The problem is that it was so smoky the quilt ended up smelling like
an
ashtray, particularly since the player I described as the Fire Goddess
joined us.

Now, no smoke. Scottish pubs have become quilting-friendly.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk
==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131
660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870
0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800
739 557

I don't see how somebody using a laptop should annoy anybody.... I work
in the bus with my laptop a couple of days a week and I seriously doubt
I am bothering anybody... now, those kids with cell phones that call a
friend the moment they hop in and broadcast their whole life at top
volume, only to hang up and call the next one and start all over, that
kills me.

WA state and URUGUAY have banned public smoking... the law went into
effect back home while I was there on march 1st, the first anniversary
of our oncologist president inauguration....

AliceW wrote:
My DH works for Amtrak and they have "quiet" cars where no cell phones,
pagers, DVD players, laptops or loud conversations are allowed. And the
riders are not afraid of telling anyone who breaks the rule to get off the
phone! It is a joy to just sit and read a book! Strange that we would
need these kinds of rail cars, but I'm glad we do!

My cell phone is on vibrate unless I'm in the car where I need to be able to
hear it over the dull roar of the traffic. I normally carry my phone in a
holder on my waist band so I can "feel" it when it "rings".


--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out for a walk)

sandy,

we were asked to 'make sofia be quiet' in a japanese bistro the other
day. this is not a fancy place, just a little place in a strip mall
close to our home. there were other kids about her age. sofi was not
missbehaving, screaming or yellling, she was just talking, but she has
this loud sometimes high pitched voice when she is excited, and talks up
a storm. we left, because there is no way I could control how much or
how she talks and enjoy dinner...

Sandy Ellison wrote:

Howdy!
I find it just about as annoying to sit near screaming, yelling,
out of control children

--
Dr. Quilter
http://community.webshots.com/user/mvignali
(take the dog out for a walk)

I can take a lot but when the mom hands a spoon to a kid that is sitting
at a metal tray type high chair I want to do mean things. : )

We took our kids a lot of places and they were usually very good.
I had my niece and nephew out to a take out place once and he decided he
was going to throw a fuss. I told him I was hungry and I was eating. (I
was, actually always am) If he wanted to throw a fit he could go do it
in the car alone. He shut up and started eating. Boy was I glad cause
I had no back up plan!

I told one woman in the post office once "clearly the only ones
listening to you is the rest of us, not your kid. My mother would say
that kid needs popped" The kid seemed to know the mom had no intention
of making him behave. I'm probably lucky I didn't get shot but everyone
in the place was glad to shut the mom up as much as the kid!
Odd, I don't remember being beat or even really 'popped' I guess mom
was good at threatening!
Taria


Jan wrote:
And if you never take her out, how will she learn?? I'm sooooo very sorry
that happened Dr. Quilter!!! We take Jess everywhere with us. How would
she learn to behave in public if we didn't????? And I'm thinking as honery
as Sandy is, her kids probably had their loud moments too..... hmmmm...
vbg

Howdy!

Your lovely Sofia would never be out of control.
Just wouldn't happen. You did the right thing; take her where she's
welcome, like her Aunt Sandy's house. ;-)

Ragmop/sandy



On 3/31/06 9:28 AM, in article , "DrQuilter"
wrote:

sandy,

we were asked to 'make sofia be quiet' in a japanese bistro the other
day. this is not a fancy place, just a little place in a strip mall
close to our home. there were other kids about her age. sofi was not
missbehaving, screaming or yellling, she was just talking, but she has
this loud sometimes high pitched voice when she is excited, and talks up
a storm. we left, because there is no way I could control how much or
how she talks and enjoy dinner...

Sandy Ellison wrote:

Howdy!
I find it just about as annoying to sit near screaming, yelling,
out of control children

I agree with all that's been said, but following a conversation I had with a
student recently, have got to add:
START teaching a child how to behave at home before you even think about
taking him/her out to a restaurant. I was talking about staging the church's
Passover dinner with my class, and said "I expect the kids should be able to
take part and behave reasonably well if they're sitting with their families.

One mom commented: "My son likes to get up and wander around during a meal,
so he's not going to sit through Passover."
I replied "Does he do that at home?"
"yes, he does." [The child in question is 6 years old and in school.]

Yikes! How can anyone expect their kids to behave reasonably in public if
they aren't taught basic courtesy at home? My husband was voted "least
likely to discipline" when my kids were little, but he NEVER would have let
them wander in and out at will during dinner. As I recall, at our house, if
you left the table, you asked to be excused first [my youngest is 21, so I'm
definitely hitting the "cranky old person" level]. If you chose to wander
off for any reason other than to go to the loo, your dinner was gone when
you returned, and there certainly was no dessert or snack later. That's
basic courtesy: we excuse ourselves when we leave the table too.


--
Kim Graham
http://members.shaw.ca/kigraham
Nanaimo, BC, Canada
THE WORD IN PATCHWORK


"Jan" wrote in message
. 125.201...
Man.... Kid with metal spoon and tray would make me want to do mean
things too vbg And you don't have to pop them, but you do have to
have an effective incentive. vbg And they know how long they can
push you .... mine comes with a very short time vbg So if you have a
short and nice threatening time with an effective incentive... you're
in. In our case it's usually you will loose a toy or privilege and we
will get up and leave immeadiately. And of course if she wants to
leave.. I'm sunk .. and that happened only once before I caught on.
I've also been known to loudly say, that child is an example of how you
should never ever behave loudly enough that the parent will hear it and
take action..... but, I'm very tired of all kids becoming targets of
older people in restaurants just because they are young. It is reaching
epidemic porportions and it's wrong. You have to be able to take your
child out to teach said child right from wrong. And if the adults are
behaving badly, I'll use them as bad examples too.... because rudeness
never teaches good behavior... it just shows that the rude adult has no
manners either.

--
Jan
RCTQ Coffee Diva


Taria wrote in news:ShfXf.19$e11.1@trnddc02:

I can take a lot but when the mom hands a spoon to a kid that is
sitting at a metal tray type high chair I want to do mean things. : )

We took our kids a lot of places and they were usually very good.
I had my niece and nephew out to a take out place once and he decided
he was going to throw a fuss. I told him I was hungry and I was
eating. (I was, actually always am) If he wanted to throw a fit he
could go do it in the car alone. He shut up and started eating. Boy
was I glad cause I had no back up plan!

I told one woman in the post office once "clearly the only ones
listening to you is the rest of us, not your kid. My mother would say
that kid needs popped" The kid seemed to know the mom had no
intention of making him behave. I'm probably lucky I didn't get shot
but everyone in the place was glad to shut the mom up as much as the
kid! Odd, I don't remember being beat or even really 'popped' I guess
mom was good at threatening!
Taria


Jan wrote:
And if you never take her out, how will she learn?? I'm sooooo very
sorry that happened Dr. Quilter!!! We take Jess everywhere with us.
How would she learn to behave in public if we didn't????? And I'm
thinking as honery as Sandy is, her kids probably had their loud
moments too..... hmmmm... vbg

DrQuilter wrote:

sandy,

we were asked to 'make sofia be quiet' in a japanese bistro the other
day. this is not a fancy place, just a little place in a strip mall
close to our home. there were other kids about her age. sofi was not
missbehaving, screaming or yellling, she was just talking, but she has
this loud sometimes high pitched voice when she is excited, and talks up
a storm. we left, because there is no way I could control how much or
how she talks and enjoy dinner...

I have had some hilarious and not so hilarious experiences out with kids...

Keep taking Sofia out with you, to all sorts of places. if people are
'off' about her, tell them how displeased you are, and that they have
forever lost not only YOUR custom, but also that of all your friends and
relations.

--
Kate XXXXXX R.C.T.Q Madame Chef des Trolls
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.katedicey.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

Howdy!

The term I used was "out of control"
which fits the parents about as well as the kids. g
Loud? Sure, I expect loud from kids.
But in a public place, "out of control" is when they're hopping and bopping
all over the place, in your ear, screaming at the back of your head,
running around like crazy -- out of control. That's something no one
paying for a meal at a restaurant should have to endure. And many of us
won't. And many of us won't let our kids behave that way. Not more than
once, anyway. G
I'm sure the sweet and lovely Sofia was not being a problem.

Btw, "ornery" lives well in my family. ;-D

Ragmop/Sandy-- Jan, what are you quilting? Bring it over here. ;-)


On 3/31/06 11:23 AM, in article
01, "Jan"
wrote:

And if you never take her out, how will she learn?? I'm sooooo very sorry
that happened Dr. Quilter!!! We take Jess everywhere with us. How would
she learn to behave in public if we didn't????? And I'm thinking as honery
as Sandy is, her kids probably had their loud moments too..... hmmmm...
vbg