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  #41  
Old November 29th 08, 05:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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On Nov 28, 10:37*pm, "Fred" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Nov 28, 7:14 am, "Fred" wrote:



"Jangchub" wrote in message


.. .


On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 17:33:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:


On Nov 27, 8:26 pm, Jangchub wrote:


He didn't murder her, he was cheating on his wife and left the scene
and reported it hours later. It doesn't make it better, but I think
the Kennedy's have had their fair share of early deaths, particularly
John.


Actually, he didn't report it. The fishermen who found the car did.
But there's all sorts of weirdness around that accident and I don't
think anyone (including Kennedy himself) is in a position to
conclusively say what happened that night.


Elizabeth


True, but my main point was the Kennedy's have had their fair share of
early deaths, two of which were assasinations. I think I was just
short of being old enough to remember the situation with Mary Jo, but
my hubs is a Kennedy Conspiracy buff.


Victoria


I never liked the conspiracy angle. Get 5 or 6 Greek men together and ask
them who had J.F.K. killed and they will all tell you, "Onassis", who
later
found out his prize was dead in bed. Actually the only two that more or
less
gained were Hoover and Johnson and they didn't have to spend a dime. I
found
it strange that Oswald who tried to shoot the govenor weeks earlier and
missed was credited with shooting J.F.K. who was a moving target and way
further away. Oswald was a lousy shot who couldn't hit the govenor from
fifty feet even though the govenor was sitting in his chair reading a
newspaper.


My thoughts - Oswald was paid to bring the rifle to the depository. The
real
shooter meets Oswald on the third? floor. The real shooter wearing gloves
does what he was paid to do and hands the rifle back to Oswald and tells
Oswald to hide the rifle and to follow him. Oswald stashes the rifle and
attempts to follow the real shooter but runs into the cop who is on his
way
up. This delays Oswald long enough that by the time he exits the back door
the real shooter is driving away in the station wagon leaving Oswald whose
finger prints are all over the rifle behind to face the music. The
get-away
vehicle is gone and Oswald realizes he has been set up and panics. The
rest
is history - sort of - I think that if Oswald had made it to the get-away
car the real shooter or driver would sooner or later have snuffed him out.
I
have often wondered if the same station wagon picked up the other guy that
was on the grassy knoll. Face it - Oswald was not a complete idiot. If he
planned everything himself he would surely have planned a better get-away.
The guys in the station wagon now have a problem because Oswald is still
alive and could talk so Ruby is called upon to take Oswald out. All makes
for interesting conversation - eh wot??


I'm confused, Fred. *You say you never liked the conspiracy angle, but
you have a conspiracy yourself?

Elizabeth

You telling me that if one man kills another that's a crime but if the same
man hires two other men to do the job for him that it is now called a
conspiracy??


Actually, yes.

Elizabeth
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  #42  
Old November 29th 08, 06:52 AM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Karen C in California
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Fred wrote:

Back to my original thinking, men kill for women, power, money or revenge,
maybe not in that order, so who got the prize??



Define "prize"? Jackie? Marilyn? Judy Exner? Some other woman?


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/
  #43  
Old November 29th 08, 11:14 AM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Fred
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Karen,
I thought you would allocate the motive being para-legal and all.g

"Onassis", - women - Jackie,
"Johnson" - power - Presidency,
"No one" - money - not armed robbery,
"Onassis", "Hoover" - revenge - possible - Kennedys reneged on their promise
to lift certain restrictions on Onassis ships entering USA ports, Hoover was
about to be fired.

Para-legal away!! LOL

Ducking and running.

Fred
http://www.stitchaway.com
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.

"Karen C in California" wrote in message
...
Fred wrote:

Back to my original thinking, men kill for women, power, money or
revenge,
maybe not in that order, so who got the prize??



Define "prize"? Jackie? Marilyn? Judy Exner? Some other woman?


--
Karen C - California
Editor/Proofreader www.IntlProofingConsortium.com

"On his tombstone, Benjamin Franklin wanted it said not that he had been
rich
but rather that he had been useful."

Finished 10/7/08 - Sun Fun (Dimensions)

WIP: Nativity from "Countdown to Christmas" book, Oriental Kimono
(Janlynn),
MLI The Teacher (gift to the library), Bethany Angel (Marbek)
Retrieved from UFO pile: Marbek's Snow Angel, MLI Farmers Market

CFSfacts -- where we give you the facts and dispel the myths
Myths, with research cites: http://www.aacfs.org/images/pdfs/myths.pdf
Newest research blog: http://cfs-facts.blogspot.com/



  #44  
Old November 29th 08, 11:15 AM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Fred
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"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:37:04 -0600, "Fred" wrote:

You telling me that if one man kills another that's a crime but if the
same
man hires two other men to do the job for him that it is now called a
conspiracy??

Back to my original thinking, men kill for women, power, money or revenge,
maybe not in that order, so who got the prize??

Fred
http://www.stitchaway.com
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.


Fred, a man who hires other men to kill for him is involved in a
conspiracy. They conspired together to kill the president of the
United States, which I believe was not conjured by Oswald. I believe
him when he said he was a patsy. Bang. Dead. Ooops.

Victoria


Victoria,
To my way of thinking, if a person hires another person or persons to kill
someone, the person doing the hiring gives the order and pays the going
price. The person doing the hiring doesn't care - when, where or how and is
not directly involved in a conspiracy. The person or persons hired may
conspire together or with others as they plan and carry out the job. The
person who set things in motion could be considered just as guilty as those
hired but that person could always plead that he/she was not part of any
conspiracy, that he/she was just joking and never thought the others
involved would do such a thing as kill a president. Splitting hairs but you
get the drift.

I agree - Oswald knew what was going down and was the delivery man of the
rifle but he didn't shoot anyone and with his finger prints on the rifle it
looked like he was made a patsy; had he made it out the back door in time to
get away with the other guys in the station wagon he would not have been a
patsy he would have been dead, buried and no where to be found. There is no
way those guys were going to take a chance on Oswald spilling his guts.

If he had planned the operation he would have planned a better get away. I
think that he just missed his ride out of the area and panicked.

Fred
http://www.stitchaway.com
If nothing changes, nothing changes.
Don't back stitch to email, just stitchit.



  #45  
Old November 29th 08, 03:17 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Cheryl Isaak
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Posts: 5,100
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On 11/28/08 11:30 PM, in article
,
" wrote:

On Nov 28, 5:08*pm, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 11/28/08 5:04 PM, in article , "Lucille"



lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Nov 28, 3:11 pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:40:08 -0600, Jangchub
opined:


Do you have any idea how fast a car goes into the water? Even if he
immediately called for help she'd have died. People die all the time
here in TX where we have flash floods with just about every hard rain.
People insist on driving over one inch of water to their death. Water
drags you down toot sweet. I'm not saying Ted was an angel, but he
certainly didn't preclude her safety by leaving. It takes seconds,
not minutes to drown.
Victoria


You are comparing apples to oranges. A car swept by flood waters is
entirely different to one going off the road into water and gently
settling down into same.


And exactly why is it his fault that she didn't get herself out?
There were apparently three open windows in the car.


Elizabeth


I don't think there were seatbelts back then either.


Wasn't the usual spiel that she was unconscious? Really don't remember
anymore and don't care enough to see what google has to say.

C


I don't know how they'd know that, since there was no autopsy. One
source claims that she was evidently breathing from an air pocket in
the back, but that doesn't make sense either, since it apparently suck
upsidedown back end first.

Elizabeth



As I said, usual spiel... But IF there had been an autopsy, blood tests
could have seen blood alcohol levels, presence of drugs in the blood... You
get the gist

C

  #46  
Old November 29th 08, 05:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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On Nov 29, 7:49*am, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:33:04 -0800 (PST),
opined:



He testified that the car went upside down. *How could there have been
an air pocket up in the back?


Elizabeth


The air pocket would always be at the 'top' of whatever, it would rise
as far as it could. *Bubbles from scuba divers go on their way to the
surface, same sort of thing.


Right, but he also testified that he could see the headlights, which
meant it went down back first. She wouldn't have found an air pocket
in the back, which is where they claim she was found.

Elizabeth
  #47  
Old November 29th 08, 05:53 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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On Nov 29, 9:17*am, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 11/28/08 11:30 PM, in article
,



" wrote:
On Nov 28, 5:08*pm, Cheryl Isaak wrote:
On 11/28/08 5:04 PM, in article , "Lucille"


lzoltynospam@now at comcast..net wrote:


wrote in message
....
On Nov 28, 3:11 pm, lucretia borgia
wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:40:08 -0600, Jangchub
opined:


Do you have any idea how fast a car goes into the water? Even if he
immediately called for help she'd have died. People die all the time
here in TX where we have flash floods with just about every hard rain.
People insist on driving over one inch of water to their death. Water
drags you down toot sweet. I'm not saying Ted was an angel, but he
certainly didn't preclude her safety by leaving. It takes seconds,
not minutes to drown.
Victoria


You are comparing apples to oranges. A car swept by flood waters is
entirely different to one going off the road into water and gently
settling down into same.


And exactly why is it his fault that she didn't get herself out?
There were apparently three open windows in the car.


Elizabeth


I don't think there were seatbelts back then either.


Wasn't the usual spiel that she was unconscious? Really don't remember
anymore and don't care enough to see what google has to say.


C


I don't know how they'd know that, since there was no autopsy. *One
source claims that she was evidently breathing from an air pocket in
the back, but that doesn't make sense either, since it apparently suck
upsidedown back end first.


Elizabeth


As I said, usual spiel... But IF there had been an autopsy, blood tests
could have seen blood alcohol levels, presence of drugs in the blood... You
get the gist

C


Yep. I think an autopsy would have cleared him, but his parents were
paid to insist that there not be one. These days, you can't refuse an
autopsy if the state requires it.

Elizabeth
  #48  
Old November 29th 08, 06:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
Lucille[_3_]
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"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:53:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:


Yep. I think an autopsy would have cleared him, but his parents were
paid to insist that there not be one. These days, you can't refuse an
autopsy if the state requires it.

Elizabeth


Or if you are a Jew. My mother's younger sister, my Aunt Ruthie was
found dead of her head exploding. Anurism. She was 53. My Uncle
Normie was thought to have killed her by both me and my mother because
he was and still is a degenerate gambler and needed the insurance
money, which was HUGE. He would not allow an autopsy even though we
demanded one because she was Jewish. That's in Brooklyn, NY. I don't
know about the rest of the country where there may not be as large a
Jewish community, which has its culture written into the laws or at
the least into the record.

To this day we believe he killed her.
Victoria


Not sure but I believe you're wrong about that and if the death is under
what may be criminal circumstances an autopsy will be done. I seem to
remember that if it's an orthodox Jew they can stay with the body while it's
being done or something so bizarre. I'm not sure if that's always the
case, but I do think I read that the decision is made on a case to case
basis.

Lucille






  #49  
Old November 29th 08, 08:47 PM posted to rec.crafts.textiles.needlework
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On Nov 29, 12:33*pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 08:53:09 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Yep. *I think an autopsy would have cleared him, but his parents were
paid to insist that there not be one. *These days, you can't refuse an
autopsy if the state requires it.


Elizabeth


Or if you are a Jew. *My mother's younger sister, my Aunt Ruthie was
found dead of her head exploding. *Anurism. *She was 53. *My Uncle
Normie was thought to have killed her by both me and my mother because
he was and still is a degenerate gambler and needed the insurance
money, which was HUGE. *He would not allow an autopsy even though we
demanded one because she was Jewish. *That's in Brooklyn, NY. *I don't
know about the rest of the country where there may not be as large a
Jewish community, which has its culture written into the laws or at
the least into the record.


Um, no. If the state found probable cause to show that he killed her,
they would have forced an autopsy. Your demanding it is not the same
as the state mandating it.

Elizabeth
 




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