The Voices in my Head

My mother just wanted me to be happy. (be able to be happy). When I was
finally able to tell her that I was so very happy with my life *sometime in
my thirtys* she cried. She was so happy for me, and afraid I would never
achieve this seemingly simple goal.
Diana

--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44

"Barbara Otterson"

My mother always wanted me to be a Dr. or a
lawyer.
Barbara
Dream Master
www.dreamweaverstudio.com

I won't repeat what has already been said, but my sister and I are
always asking about how it is that so man people are abused growing up
and isn't it more than we know.
While it was happening to me, for some reason, I took a different turn.
I knew, though it was in an era long ago, when this treatment of me, was
not as well known and all like we have now, that this was wrong. i knew
it wasn;t my fault and I could not wait for my 18th birthday, so I could
go. My Grandmother was the perpetrator, for the most part. I often
remark that I raised mysef and to some extent that is true. I
reconnected with my mother 10 years ago after not being around her for
mny years. She has had to learn s0me rules about behavior and sometimes
she fails. But we just move on .... the percentage of abused kids is
surely higher than we know !
Rainbow

Rainbow,

It sounds like you learned to deal with this stuff better then almost anyone I
have ever met with these types of problems.
That is really admirable.

Although I do not believe I came from an abusive background at all, I am having
difficulties with my parents and some of what you say carries over there as well
I think. I tend to just feel really guilty about even thinking I *HAVE*
problems when I hear a story like your's, but there is a lot to learn for
everyone from hearing about another person's experience.
Thanks for sharing.

marisa2

I think we're finally waking up to the fact that this kind of coercive
control does -not- create healthy people. Just resentful, intimidated
and sometimes emotionally dissociated ones.

And the beat(ing) goes on...

Deirdre

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 17:45:09 GMT,
(Barbara Otterson) wrote:

When my grandfather
was a child, being whipped with a switch was perfectly
acceptable as a practice for keeping children in line.
His father liked to use it until the blood ran down his
legs........

Not so many years ago, the penal system tried out a new course of corrective
actions for juvelines. They used a "bootcamp" model. In the short run, the
boys were more disciplined and obedient. In the long run, they learned that
being big and mean works.

Tina


"Lee S. Billings" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

I think we're finally waking up to the fact that this kind of coercive
control does -not- create healthy people. Just resentful, intimidated
and sometimes emotionally dissociated ones.

*Some* people are fully awake to that fact. Others continue to bemoan the
removal of (official) beatings from public schools.

My personal opinion is that there is a place for the quick disciplinary
swat
*when you're dealing with a child who doesn't yet have language skills*.
By the
time the kid is in school -- *certainly* by the end of elementary
school! -- I
can't see how hitting the kid is going to teach anything but "If I'm
bigger /
stronger / higher-ranking than you, I can beat you up and you can't do
anything
about it." It won't stop the behavior because it doesn't address the
cause, and
it demonstrates that physical bullying of the weak is okay.

Celine

--
Handmade jewelry at http://www.rubylane.com/shops/starcat
"Only the powers of evil claim that doing good is boring."
-- Diane Duane, _Nightfall at Algemron_

Yep.
Its fast, its easy (on the adult) and says the desired behavour is more
important than the person. Its a lazy answer if you ask me.
I dont like intimidation techniques of any form. Its bullying if done with
fists or not. Fear is not a healthy way of keeping kids in control...*unless
that is a healthy response to a real danger*
half asleep.. not sure what Im trying to say.. but I know what kind of
parenting I would rather do. Discipline, not punishment. Teach, guide, not
browbeat into submission.
Diana

--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44

"Deirdre S." wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, I think that this is exactly what the intended 'lesson'
actually IS..

Deirdre

On 31 Jul 2003 02:24:37 GMT, (Lee S.
Billings) wrote:

I
can't see how hitting the kid is going to teach anything but "If I'm
bigger /
stronger / higher-ranking than you, I can beat you up and you can't do
anything
about it." It won't stop the behavior because it doesn't address the
cause, and
it demonstrates that physical bullying of the weak is okay.

Sorry ... I think I sent html to the list again ... damn these half
blind eyes ! Sight is bad today.
I have learning difficulties. And ADD. Beading or anything else never
comes easy, and i am slower than most folks at most things. This one
thing so irked all the adults in my childhod and some of my friends,
that it caused continual punishment verbally. But as I have said, I
dealt with ths. I watch Dr. Phil alot. he seems to have it right, for
the most part, that brow beating and intmidation donn't work. He is
right. He also avocates loving one's self.
I also believe that some people do not need to have kids.
Look, I work with kids on a part time basis, but in a special way
because I entertain them with clowning and magic. Not once in 23 years
have I ever seen any evidence of any parent ever verbally bullying or
harming a kid in front of me. And I think that is more than telling ....
I've seen some behaviors I disagreed with, like the man who told his kid
if he didn't behave, I would slap him ... and I know I am not just
extraordinarily lucky and never ran into any. They're out there. I've
always wondered if some of the parents i've met are the ones ... I have
met so many nurturing parents ! I think they are good actors in front of
me, the bad ones. I think and I know that it is more than a few and more
than we know. We were at a casino yesterday for lunch and saw an
extraordinary performance by a dad berating loudly everyone in a party
of about 6 kids and a couple of adults. It was embarassing ! I can only
imagine how this escalates at home.
Being able to get past child abuse issues was simple enough for me
because I knew it was wrong. Like I said, don't ask me how I just
accepted that ... Because tis is 2003 and we know so much more about all
these mental games people play, you'd think many more people would
understand what it is and as soon as possible, get out of their
situations. For me, I began to make jewelry. really early in
life, like in 1966. It gave me something to focus on, something to be
proud of and a quiet place to go when the world got too rough. And it
does today. I have had to learn how to learn, for myself and learn how
to sit and carry out projects to completion, ( yes I have UFO's I get
tired of and set down ) and to sit quietly and meditate and work. And I
do not allow anyone in my life who isn't as nurturing as I naturally am.
I think and I know that kids should be taught early in life to find
themselves, and know that anything other than love and respect is wrong.
Rainbow

"Deirdre S." wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, I think that this is exactly what the intended 'lesson'
actually IS..

Yup. It also teaches kids that their natural impulses to things-- healthy
reactions such as outrage at being mistreated-- have to be contained and
suppressed.

There's a huge disconnect between "mommy loves you" and "mommy beats the
crap out of you" and little kids can't afford to express anger and outrage
at mommy's violence toward them when they are also so dependent on her for
love and care. So violence becomes rationalized in the child's mind as an
expression of love, and is thus perpetuated.

Belief in the myth of "she hit me because she loved me" and remaining unable
to see that, in reality, people-- including our own parents-- mistreat
others for reasons that have nothing to do with love, will give that child
license to beat her own kids when she's a mother, too, unless she learns to
understand this and can then circumvent the cycle.

Laura


Deirdre

On 31 Jul 2003 02:24:37 GMT, (Lee S.
Billings) wrote:

I
can't see how hitting the kid is going to teach anything but "If I'm
bigger /
stronger / higher-ranking than you, I can beat you up and you can't do
anything
about it." It won't stop the behavior because it doesn't address the
cause, and
it demonstrates that physical bullying of the weak is okay.

"Christina Peterson" wrote in message
news:1059626724.434502@prawn...
Not so many years ago, the penal system tried out a new course of
corrective
actions for juvelines. They used a "bootcamp" model. In the short run,
the
boys were more disciplined and obedient. In the long run, they learned
that
being big and mean works.

Yes, don't you just love it? The justification for that was what, exactly?
Let's take a bunch of troubled kids who are acting out because they have
probably already been grossly abused and have the sanctioned system abuse
them even more!

Laura