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Buying a prop-ox torch setup



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 7th 07, 04:15 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
C0nnie
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Posts: 9
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

Hi all.

This is probably my first post here. I recognize a few names here from
elsewhere. I have a question that many of you know at least some
answers to.

I am ready to buy a torch, hotter than my butane one at home. I have
had the opportunity to solder at the Crucible in Oakland CA where I
just finished a general Intro to Jewelry course. They had propane-
oxygen and it worked well. I don't need more heat than that for a long
time.

I plan to use it for annealing, butt-joints, sweat-soldering Argentium
and other (copper?), granulation of Argentium, fine silver, gold, and
other similar soldering, fusing and working operations.

I am now a chainmailler but that skill is just a backbone to the rest
of the metal arts I am learning and plan to use. So that means some
small work fusing or soldering Argentium jump rings. I use a lot of
Arg.

My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porchnow closed
and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No
space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and
oxygen.

I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte and
set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't
think I need a gauge, just regulator) and am on a budget but not to
the detriment of what is reasonable.

Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this
second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s)
for a new torch and what to avoid?

My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for
the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies.


Ads
  #2  
Old March 7th 07, 03:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
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Posts: 165
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed
and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No
space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and
oxygen.


I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them.
Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at
inconvenient times.

For propane, I recommend the size tank that you can trade out at the
supermarket. The local welding supplier can deliver oxygen tanks.
80 Cu. Ft. or so is a reasonable size. Since they stand, they are really
not going to take up _that_ much more room.


I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte


Those are very good.

and
set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't
think I need a gauge, just regulator)


You might want to get the propane hose, too; they are not always easy to
find locally, and acetylene hoses are not for propane.

and am on a budget but not to
the detriment of what is reasonable.

Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this
second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s)
for a new torch and what to avoid?


I've been very happy with a propane torch with blowpipe I got from them.
With oxypropane, be sure the tips are small enough for your smallest work.

My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for
the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies.


Make it sturdy. You do not want a tank with a regulator on it to fall
over. Old welders have horror stories.
--
mbstevens
http://www.mbstevens.com/

  #3  
Old March 8th 07, 03:43 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
C0nnie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Mar 7, 6:49 am, mbstevens wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed
and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No
space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and
oxygen.


I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them.
Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at
inconvenient times.

For propane, I recommend the size tank that you can trade out at the
supermarket. The local welding supplier can deliver oxygen tanks.
80 Cu. Ft. or so is a reasonable size. Since they stand, they are really
not going to take up _that_ much more room.





I have the Rio catalog and I see the Smith Little Torch a la carte


Those are very good.

and
set stuff. All I need is the whole setup (haha) (not a holder, don't
think I need a gauge, just regulator)


You might want to get the propane hose, too; they are not always easy to
find locally, and acetylene hoses are not for propane.

and am on a budget but not to
the detriment of what is reasonable.


Contenti has a torch setup that could work with Prop-ox-- I heard this
second-hand from someone. My question is, what is/are good source(s)
for a new torch and what to avoid?


I've been very happy with a propane torch with blowpipe I got from them.
With oxypropane, be sure the tips are small enough for your smallest work.



My husband is very handy and will build a simple strapping device for
the tanks. Thanks in advance for all replies.


Make it sturdy. You do not want a tank with a regulator on it to fall
over. Old welders have horror stories.
--
mbstevenshttp://www.mbstevens.com/


mbpstevens,
Thank you for your specific advice. I will re-think the size of
propane tank. We already trade out 2 big propane tanks, one for the
barbecue and one for a propane heater.

Contenti seems to be a good economy supplier. I will also consider
getting the holder for the whole system.
Is there such a thing as a regulator w/o a gauge? Maybe a gauge is a
good thing.

I'm considering getting Rio's video DVD all about soldering. It says
it's 90 mins and goes thru selection of equipment, safety tips and
setup of the soldering area. In it, a box ring is fabricated.
Connie


  #4  
Old March 8th 07, 04:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 02:43:33 +0000, C0nnie wrote:

Contenti seems to be a good economy supplier. I will also consider
getting the holder for the whole system.
Is there such a thing as a regulator w/o a gauge?


Yes, I have a heater with one -- not for jewelry torches, though.

Maybe a gauge is a
good thing.


Oh, yes. I enjoy tuning my system for each task.
Generally, smaller tip openings require less pressure.
Too high pressure makes the gas move through so fast that it will not stay
lit. Too low pressure in a large tip opening will not give enough heat and
could result in flashbacks. A fixed pressure regulator will not do the
job, and you want to be able to read the pressure you are using.


I'm considering getting Rio's video DVD all about soldering. It says
it's 90 mins and goes thru selection of equipment, safety tips and
setup of the soldering area. In it, a box ring is fabricated.


I have not seen it. But it seems like a good idea, if nothing else, to
actually see a torch being adjusted. Although quite easy to
see with oxy/acetylene torches, with oxy/propane it is not quite so
clear where the sweet spot of a neutral flame is between oxidizing and
reducing flames. There are also all sorts of little safety tricks that
are worth knowing. I had a class in metal sculpture once where the
instructor didn't know all of these. People in the class would do things
like stand in front of oxygen regulators when opening the tank
valve. A safety video is not a bad idea.

  #5  
Old March 9th 07, 04:20 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Ben[_2_]
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Posts: 9
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup


"C0nnie" wrote in message
...
On Mar 7, 6:49 am, mbstevens wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:15:22 +0000, C0nnie wrote:
My space is friendly but not big. A former screened porch now closed
and comfortably insulated, but more ventilated than the indoors. No
space for large tanks so I want the disposable size propane and
oxygen.


I see mapp/oxygen setups in disposable size, but do not recommend them.
Even for small work, you will find yourself running out of gas at
inconvenient times.

[snip]

Novice here but have had success for small castings (up to 1ozt) using the
MAPP/Oxy combo from Home Depot at $49.99. The tip works for what I'm doing
but for soldering maybe picking up some smaller ones from Contenti would
suffice. As MBStevens says, you can run out Oxy quickly (the MAPP gas lasts
quite a while). On my first 1 oz 999 silver melt I blew an entire Ox tank!
LOL...I quickly learned that holding the flame tip in the same room as the
silver helps =). Now I can cast 10 to 14 times on a single Ox tank with
multiples of that on the MAPP. Not cost effective for the long haul but
definitely a short term workable solution.

HTH

- Ben



  #6  
Old March 9th 07, 05:10 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
C0nnie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

mbstevens wrote:
I had a class in metal sculpture once where the
instructor didn't know all of these. People in the class would do
things
like stand in front of oxygen regulators when opening the tank
valve. A safety video is not a bad idea.

Wow, I didn't think of that- maybe there is something important I
didn't learn in class. I just finished a class and took the
opportunity to practice using the propane-oxygen. There was a lot of
adjusting and then I got more used to it. At first, I opened with too
much propane, then too little propane and when I turned on the oxygen,
the flame went out.

Ben wrote:
As MBStevens says, you can run out Oxy quickly (the MAPP gas lasts
quite a while).

So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane,
or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems? I am
starting to understand why so many people have multiple torches. Like
having 2 printers, one with expensive ink...

All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole
Smith Little torch from Rio Grande. It's a lot of money in one place
though. I am in Calif so, unlike Contenti, they're not all the way
across the country. They are good with support and the kit seems to
have everything in it. Contenti is wonderful but seems more like a do-
it-yourself operation.

I am going this morning to consign a few pieces with a local jewelry
shop (fabulous original designer, I am so thrilled to have my work in
with his pieces). I will hit him up for even more torch wisdom.

I am so happy to have found this forum. I am really learning a lot
from reading here.

-Connie




  #7  
Old March 10th 07, 04:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 165
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:10:08 +0000, C0nnie wrote:

I had one of those little mapp/oxy systems and still own the regulator.
They only cast very small amounts of metal. The oxygen did run out
faster. I usually cast at least a three ounces of metal at a time, and it
it wouldn't even handle that much.

So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane,
or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems?


Oxy tanks are usually a bit larger and under much higher pressure when
delivered -- around 2000 psi. Propane can be delivered as a pressurized
liquid, making it easier to package more of it in smaller containers.

All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole
Smith Little torch


They are just great. I use mine with oxy/acetylene for casting, fusing,
and even firing an occasional small enamel from a distance.

As for Smith Little Torch:
In your regulator you run fuel and oxygen at about the same pressure,
if you are using a neutral flame. Larger heating tips use more fuel.

For soldering, annealing, and firing enamels I usually use a European
propane torch that comes with an extra hose to blow through; this extra
air adds a bit of extra heat and shapes the flame. If you are not
casting, you might want to just start with one of those from Contenti.
They are really very flexible, and you might never have to bother with
oxygen. Just pick up your propane refills when you go to the supermarket.


  #8  
Old March 10th 07, 09:29 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
C0nnie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Mar 9, 7:29 pm, mbstevens wrote:
On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 16:10:08 +0000, C0nnie wrote:

I had one of those little mapp/oxy systems and still own the regulator.
They only cast very small amounts of metal. The oxygen did run out
faster. I usually cast at least a three ounces of metal at a time, and it
it wouldn't even handle that much.

So does that mean that MAPP/oxy is more disproportionate than propane,
or does oxygen usually run out faster on all gas-oxygen systems?


Oxy tanks are usually a bit larger and under much higher pressure when
delivered -- around 2000 psi. Propane can be delivered as a pressurized
liquid, making it easier to package more of it in smaller containers.

All my research is leaning me more and more toward getting the whole
Smith Little torch


They are just great. I use mine with oxy/acetylene for casting, fusing,
and even firing an occasional small enamel from a distance.

As for Smith Little Torch:
In your regulator you run fuel and oxygen at about the same pressure,
if you are using a neutral flame. Larger heating tips use more fuel.

For soldering, annealing, and firing enamels I usually use a European
propane torch that comes with an extra hose to blow through; this extra
air adds a bit of extra heat and shapes the flame. If you are not
casting, you might want to just start with one of those from Contenti.
They are really very flexible, and you might never have to bother with
oxygen. Just pick up your propane refills when you go to the supermarket.


Aha.

Well I hit the mother lode today that corresponds with all of your
advice. Went to visit my fave goldsmith and he showed me his Meco
Midget and why he likes it (bigger output/ more versatile than Smith
Little).

Then went to the local welders supply and coincidentally the Smith rep
was there. I told him about the Midget and he showed me the Smith
Quickbraze. (see http://www.smithequipment.com/produc...z/quickbrz.htm
) What a nice lil gadget with kevlar covering the hoses.

Bigger than the Little torch, but still quite petite.

Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is
the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is
on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something
awkward- this is for heating and ac guys.

Still, the setup meets and exceeds all my needs for years to come. I
plan to get it Monday. With the oxygen regulator H1940G-540 and a
single-stage propane regulator, it will total out to about $360.


  #9  
Old March 10th 07, 03:00 PM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
mbstevens
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Posts: 165
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:29:07 +0000, C0nnie wrote:

Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is
the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is
on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something
awkward- this is for heating and ac guys.


I wonder how often a jeweler will use the horseshoe. Do you do a lot of
tubing attachments? I'd beef it up by buying some extra normal tips in so
you have graded sizes. I like the idea of the kevlar on the hose.

  #10  
Old March 11th 07, 01:42 AM posted to rec.crafts.jewelry
Frosty
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Posts: 155
Default Buying a prop-ox torch setup

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:00:26 GMT in rec.crafts.jewelry mbstevens
, intended to write something
intelligible, but instead wrote :

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:29:07 +0000, C0nnie wrote:

Comes with 4 tips, one is a dual flame, looks like a horseshoe, one is
the typical small aperture of jewelers, one is a rosette. One tip is
on a long copper tube extending it beyond or between something
awkward- this is for heating and ac guys.


I wonder how often a jeweler will use the horseshoe. Do you do a lot of
tubing attachments? I'd beef it up by buying some extra normal tips in so
you have graded sizes. I like the idea of the kevlar on the hose.



FWIW, I have the little torch (Smith?) and use Oxy/ace.
I have one tip and it's been on there for about 15 years.
I have a bit of a larger torch for larger jobs and a HUGE combo
welding torch/cutting torch (changable tips) for large reduction.

I got tired of swapping out tanks so often and got the really tall
tanks that I need a hand truck thing with a chain to tote it around.
I also have too many check valves on all my lines and use quick
release fittings.

For your reading pleasu
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com...ane-explosions

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 




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