Soldering pad outside of abestos where did they go?!?

Hi Folks,

I've got a project to solder and every time I make the attempt
stuff moves and I am REAL over re-doing this.

Granted, it has been a while since I did this, but back when I
did I had an asbestos pad that you could use pins to hold the
parts while you soldered them.

I've spent the last two days looking for something similar with
absolutely NO luck. All that I can find are hard pads which are
the equivalent to the the carbon block I have.

Tried the "helping hand" thing and that doesn't work out well
either.

What do people do now that asbestos pads seem to be evil :-)?

Thanks, Chris.

Chris wrote:
...an asbestos pad that you could use pins to hold the
parts while you soldered them.
...
What do people do now that asbestos pads seem to be evil :-)?


Coiled ceramic pads can use pins.

Ceramic pads with hundreds of pre-cast holes can
position things with stopping pins or binding wire
inserted down through the holes. These pads break
easily under heat, so order extras.

You can press things slightly into soft charcoal blocks.

Soldering investment and soldering clay can position parts perfectly,
but you get silica exposure if you don't wear a respirator and know
how to handle it.

Chris wrote:


What do people do now that asbestos pads seem to be evil :-)?


Skill helps.

So does binding wire. And if you have to use pins (the amateur way),
you can do that on charcoal blocks.

And BTW, asbestos pads don't "seem" to be evil, they ARE evil.

--
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:38:04 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Chris
wrote:


What do people do now that asbestos pads seem to be evil :-)?

If you like, you can get a somewhat thicker magnesium based soldering block.
shaped about like charcoal blocks, but white, very soft, somewhat fibrous. Pins
work in the stuff. I don't like it much, as it's rather flakey and messy, but
sometimes it's useful. Plain old soft fire brick also will let you use pins
easily enough

Holding parts together, though, is best done without pins, at least for me. I
can't actually remember the list time I used pins... If well fitted, and
positioned correctly, often flux is all that's needed to hold things from
shifting. Binding wire is good, and remember that third hands don't always need
to actually hold a part, but can be used just to prop something up against on a
soldering block. Extra scraps of charcoal or firebrick, etc, as well as shaped
depressions cut into the blocks, can also be used to help position things right.
Pinning or binding things when you don't need to, can invite parts to then warp
when heated, as they may then not be free to expand evenly.

Peter

Chris wrote:
Hi Folks,

I've got a project to solder and every time I make the attempt
stuff moves and I am REAL over re-doing this.

Granted, it has been a while since I did this, but back when I
did I had an asbestos pad that you could use pins to hold the
parts while you soldered them.

I've spent the last two days looking for something similar with
absolutely NO luck. All that I can find are hard pads which are
the equivalent to the the carbon block I have.

Tried the "helping hand" thing and that doesn't work out well
either.

What do people do now that asbestos pads seem to be evil :-)?

Thanks, Chris.

1stly theres a lot of crap spouted about asbestos.
To get that out of the way lets look at it more closely.
The most dangerous stuff is the blue asbestos fibres. In the loose
form ,floating about in the air with you breathing it in , yes dont do
it!! but on its own combined in a pad say, woven, with flux residues on
it from previous soldering jobs, theres more risk to your health from
flux fumes and polishing dusts than the asbestos in the pad.
All soldering jobs and polishing engines need proper fume dust
extraction. If you havnt set these up then your putting yourself at risk.
Asbestos combined with plaster of paris ie asbestolux is also safe so
thats what I use.
I used that form for my soldering jobs and have done for 39 years, with
a clean chest( recent xray) so long as when you saw it , your upwind and
dust is blown away from you.
also the least risky is the asbestos cement rooofing sheets and tiles.
there the asbestos is locked in with cement and will not cause you harm
if you dont saw it all day and your down wind if your work. that risk
applies to many other dusts, hay making, grinding ,dry stone cutting
with carborundum or diamond wheels.
So to look at jigging your work.
If your producing a lot of the same product, then its worth making it
out of carbon or asbestolux
A proper placement jig is well worth doing.
If its a 1 off then your still in neeed of support for whats a
difficult joining job. If there are several joins the proper technique
is to solder the 1st joint with hard solder then each subsequent joint
you use a lower melting point solder.

Hope this helps.


..

Ted Frater wrote:

Chris wrote:
Hi Folks,
[ ... ]
Thanks, Chris.

1stly theres a lot of crap spouted about asbestos.

Thank you Sir! Good to get a response from someone who has also
done the research and educated themselves rather than just
parroting the "SCARY ASBESTOS" stories. I am well aware that
asbestos is indeed dangerous to the ignorant and lazy :-).

To get that out of the way lets look at it more closely.
The most dangerous stuff is the blue asbestos fibres. In the
loose
form ,floating about in the air with you breathing it in , yes
dont do it!! but on its own combined in a pad say, woven, with
flux residues on it from previous soldering jobs, theres more
risk to your health from flux fumes and polishing dusts than
the asbestos in the pad. All soldering jobs and polishing
engines need proper fume dust extraction. If you havnt set
these up then your putting yourself at risk. Asbestos combined
with plaster of paris ie asbestolux is also safe so thats what
I use.

Did you make this yourself or is there some source for something
like this?

I used that form for my soldering jobs and have done for
39 years, with a clean chest( recent xray) so long as when you
saw it , your upwind and dust is blown away from you.
also the least risky is the asbestos cement rooofing sheets and
tiles. there the asbestos is locked in with cement and will not
cause you harm if you dont saw it all day and your down wind if
your work. that risk applies to many other dusts, hay making,
grinding ,dry stone cutting with carborundum or diamond wheels.
So to look at jigging your work.
If your producing a lot of the same product, then its worth
making it out of carbon or asbestolux
A proper placement jig is well worth doing.
If its a 1 off then your still in neeed of support for whats
a
difficult joining job. If there are several joins the proper
technique is to solder the 1st joint with hard solder then each
subsequent joint you use a lower melting point solder.

Doing, as you can imagine where I am, minimal amounts of anything
until we can get moved (a tenant with any tools scares the
building owner). Need to keep it simple and as effective (and
hideable :-) as possible.

Hope this helps.

Yes Sir, it does. I have a minimal dust / fume extraction system
and combine that with a decent filter mask. Quite concerned
with the safety issues overall and do deal with them both
mentally and physically.

Hopefully I can find something like this without having to build
it.

Thanks very much for the enlightening post, Chris.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:33:00 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry Chris
wrote:


Hopefully I can find something like this without having to build
it.

Chris,

Try something like these suggestions from the Contenti web site:

magnesia soldering block
http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-290.html

soft charcoal (standard charcoal blocks). reflect heat, so sometimes are better
for some jobs. Can be punctured by pins, but not as neatly as the magnesia
block
http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-421.html

Soft ceramic soldering board Slightly more "crumbly" than the old asbestos
boards, but not by much. Somewhat similar to firebrick, but softer and less
crumbly. Ceramic fiber based.
http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-311.html

Solderite soldering boards.
A little harder than the old asbestos, but usable just the same with pins. These
are, in some shops, the standard soldering boards where softer boards are
desired.
http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-251.html

And you might have a look at these "third hand" style soldering stations from
GRS. Though not quite as precise as the ads make them look, they're more
adjustable than the usual tweezer in a single friction mount. They do have one
big drawback I've found, which is that the tweezers themselve are prone to
getting rather hot when working due to their short length and lack of any
thermal insulation on the handles, so you have to be careful not to burn your
fingers when releasing the work after soldering. But overall, they're good
tools.

http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/420-396.html

And this is just from one vendor. You can find other products from others too.
Rio Grande, for example, sells a ready mixed soldering plaster. Asbestos free,
it's very fast setting, and works easily enough, if you like. Setting work up
in plaster for soldering is one of the most precise ways to align lots of small
parts together. You position them in clay or wax, imbedding the areas you want
later exposed for soldering, then cover with the plaster. Remove the clay or
wax (boiling water takes off wax), and your parts are now held in position,
joint areas exposed for soldering, the rest protected pretty well from
accidental melting, a boon to beginners and overly hurried pros alike.. A
pretty standard method, for example, of constructing some types of complex
clusters of settings...

Rio also sells a sort of mashed up non asbestos junk, used to be sold blue in
color, maybe still is, that with time turns grey, and seems rather like what
you'd get with mashed up furnace tape mixed with water. The result is like a
paper mache mix that can be used to support work for soldering. Wet, it's
pliable and shapable, as you heat, it dries and becomes more rigid. Other than
the parts that actually get blackened and charred, the dry undamaged parts can
be wet again and reused.
Or make your own version with hardware store furnace tape. Shred and knead till
a fairly uniform mush...

cheers

Peter

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:48:23 -0700, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:

If you like,

Welcome back, Peter! Have a nice vacation?
--
Marilee J. Layman
http://mjlayman.livejournal.com

"Peter W.. Rowe," wrote in message
...

Soft ceramic soldering board Slightly more "crumbly" than the old
asbestos
boards, but not by much. Somewhat similar to firebrick, but softer and
less
crumbly. Ceramic fiber based.

That's the stuff I use.

It get's horribly black after a time but it's as good as asbestos.

And silver does rather tend to 'stick' to it...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 03:10:49 -0700, in rec.crafts.jewelry "Marilee J. Layman"
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 02:48:23 -0700, "Peter W.. Rowe,"
wrote:

If you like,

Welcome back, Peter! Have a nice vacation?

Thanks. yes it was nice. But with the current exchange rate, Europe is just
horribly costly for americans now. Puts a damper on some of the fun. But we
still had a fascinating and good time.

And thanks to Frosty for filling in. Turned out, due to as yet undiagnosed
software and other glitches, to be a lot more work and trouble than I
anticipated it would be for him. Hopefully the group wasn't too disturbed, and
my thanks to the chilled one for being willing to help when I asked.

cheers

Peter