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#21
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Took a class
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 18:47:45 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha wrote: Frosty wrote: Anyway it's an unbelievable substance that I put on my sawblades and it helps me cut straighter and easier and I don't break sawblades hardly at all (and I use 9/0 blades mostly.) A total waste of money. Spit is the best lubricant. Just lick your saw blades. Never fails. I've been doing it for more than 30 years. And after the first few years, either you learn to lick the blade in the downward direction, or the cuts stop hurting so much in any case. personally, I prefer bur life over spit, especially on drill bits. Seems less messy. Not that it works better, though... On drill bits, I use Wintergreen oil. one "tongue-in-cheek" problem with spit, of course, is that it might cause a blade to rust. Rust has never been a problem, since the blades do not stay wet long enough. Thew spit evaporates due to the heat developed through friction. That's how fast I saw. And when I file, it gets so hot, sparks fly! That might mean needing to change the blade more than once a year or so, before the teeth are totally worn off. Most of the time, my blades do indeed wear out and get dull, before they break. It was very different when I was a beginner. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
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#22
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Took a class
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:38:20 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: I agree with the traditional German "Style". I got the German kind when I lived there. Don't use them anymore. They are very heavy in the hand. When I cam to the US, I bought a Swiss made one, that was rather bad, but I took it apart, and completely rebuilt it. Made a new handle for it too. This frame is now so well balanced, I would be in mourning if I ever lost it. My favorite is actually a slightly ligher frame from the german ones. It's an old french frame. Similar style to the germans, but lighter, oval cross section steel, nicer handle. Who knows how old. Early 20th century perhaps... Was old when I got it in the 70s. But I'm equally happy with the german frames, for the most part. My biggest beef with them is that the screws to tighten the blades are on the left side as you saw. Easier for a right hander to change blades, but I annoyingly sometimes hit my thumb with the upper screw. So I modified that frame to turn the screw around to the other side. Some frames sold now allow that as a user choice. There are sawblades, and then there are sawblades. Some very wide variations in price. Some of the costliest are not really the best for beginners, since they're often tempered to a harder state, making them better for harder metals, or tough to cut metals like platinum, or steel. But for most beginners, a medium quality level blade is just fine, and saves money, since you'll actually break fewer of them. But I've not looked at the frei web site to be sure what you got. So maybe you're fine.... (Tevel, at Allcraft, in New York, always seems to have specials on some cool pliers at amazing prices, at every SNAG convention...) You can even find servicable cheaper pliers at places like Harbor Freight. Don't! The ones from allcraft are usually the good german ones. The ones from harbor freight are cheap junk chinese. But I like to have a few around, because from time to time I need to modify a pair of pliers with custom grooves to hold something odd, or for polishing something unusual, or reshaping the jaws in some other odd way. Often this makes the pliers useless for normal routine tasks. So it's nice to have the cheapies around for such modifications, since the result is usually a tool worth keeping, just in case, but not one I'll need often. For that, the cheapies work fine. Small bits get dull quickly, and when dull don't work as well and break easily. You'll get a lot more life out of your bits if you learn to sharpen them. Needs a good magnifier, and use a fine grit seperating disk in a flex shaft to sharpen them. No! Use a sharpening stone, with the drill in a pin vise. You'll have much better control. To each his own. I find I have better control, and get a better point, my way. I'd note that I'm talking about small drills, maybe size 55 and up. I can resharpen a number 80 bit my way. I tend to break the damn things doing it on flat stone. Clumsy, I guess... I use the very thin .010" flexible seperating disks, which have a quite smooth side. they also break easily, but that's another issue. I hold the bit in a pin vise as you do, or sometimes just still in the #30 handpiece. Either way, the vise or the chuck can be used to see that you've turned the bit 180 degrees from one face to the other. I use a ten power eye loupe when sharpening these, so I can see just what I'm doing. If the handpiece holding the seperating disk and the chuck or vise holding the drill are held carefully in alignment, the angles are very easy to keep equal from side to side, and this way, I can easily see just as I start to grind the bit, that I'm right on the original angles of the bit. In short, this works very well for me. But it's not for everyone, I agree. One thing it allows, difficult with a sharpening stone, is that with the cutting edge of the seperating disk (not the flat side that I use for the actual sharpening), I can also split the point, or thin the web of the bit. This is useful once the bit is getting down to the end of it's flutes, where the web is getting too thick. Putting a split point on them makes it cut like a new bit again, and helps it to not wander off target when starting the hole (something they can do when the web is too wide, even with a properly center punched mark to start the hole. You do, when sharpening this way, need to be careful not to overheat the bit if you're sharpening carbon steel bits (like the drills/burs with 3/32 shanks). But usually, the problem with overheating those occurs when actually drilling, and the drill is getting dull, not when sharpening again. cheers Peter |
#23
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Took a class
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:38:27 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: On drill bits, I use Wintergreen oil. I used to. gravers too. But I think I've become sensative to it. Gives me a nasty headache. Too bad. smells nice. one "tongue-in-cheek" problem with spit, of course, is that it might cause a blade to rust. Rust has never been a problem, since the blades do not stay wet long enough. Thew spit evaporates due to the heat developed through friction. That's how fast I saw. And when I file, it gets so hot, sparks fly! SMOKIN!!! That might mean needing to change the blade more than once a year or so, before the teeth are totally worn off. Most of the time, my blades do indeed wear out and get dull, before they break. It was very different when I was a beginner. Yeah, I know. Sometimes I'll be working on a job, usually some ring where the blade needs to thread through a hole on one side of the ring in order to properly have access to the hole on the other side where I'm actually sawing, where I'll just end up breaking several blades in quick succession. Leads to some colorful language. But more often, the blades get tossed when for whatever reason, they're not cutting well any more. Often, some hard thing, a stone, a bit of uneven metal hardness, or whatever, has dulled one side of the blade more than the other, so it cuts to one side, not straight. Annoying, and worth tossing the blade for. It also took me some time, years ago, to learn that not only are hercules blades harder, but the white label are tempered for steel, for tool and die makers, not jewelers. They're quite brittle. Back then, I thought larger blade sizes might last longer, so I was using coarser blades. Damn things would shatter like glass if you looked at em crossways. finer blades, and swithing to another blade brand fixed the situation. By the way, your comment on blade sizes. 1//0 and 2/0 blades are indeed useful when working with thicker silver (3/0s on sixteen guage silver is slower, and who cares about the metal lost) or cutting sprues, etc. But you're right, most of the time, 3/0s are the best all around size. Peter |
#24
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Took a class
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 05:38:23 +0000, Abrasha wrote:
The items I ordered are not due until the 14th, would it be unreasonable of me to eat the shipping costs and start over? matthew ohio |
#25
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Took a class
Peter W.. Rowe, wrote:
To each his own. I find I have better control, and get a better point, my way. I'd note that I'm talking about small drills, maybe size 55 and up. I can resharpen a number 80 bit my way. I don't believe you can resharpen a #80 drill bit, in any way. I routinely resharpen #63 drill bits, but #80, I don't believe a word of it! I tend to break the damn things doing it on flat stone. Clumsy, I guess... I use the very thin .010" flexible seperating disks, which have a quite smooth side. they also break easily, but that's another issue. I hold the bit in a pin vise as you do, or sometimes just still in the #30 handpiece. Either way, the vise or the chuck can be used to see that you've turned the bit 180 degrees from one face to the other. I use a ten power eye loupe when sharpening these, so I can see just what I'm doing. If the handpiece holding the seperating disk and the chuck or vise holding the drill are held carefully in alignment, the angles are very easy to keep equal from side to side, and this way, I can easily see just as I start to grind the bit, that I'm right on the original angles of the bit. In short, this works very well for me. But it's not for everyone, I agree. One thing it allows, difficult with a sharpening stone, is that with the cutting edge of the seperating disk (not the flat side that I use for the actual sharpening), I can also split the point, or thin the web of the bit. I want to see you do that on a #80 bit. Not a snowball's chance in Hell! -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#26
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Took a class
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:55:46 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: Peter W.. Rowe, wrote: To each his own. I find I have better control, and get a better point, my way. I'd note that I'm talking about small drills, maybe size 55 and up. I can resharpen a number 80 bit my way. I don't believe you can resharpen a #80 drill bit, in any way. I routinely resharpen #63 drill bits, but #80, I don't believe a word of it! Send me a mailing address. I'll be happy to send you a resharpened bit. Not sure it's number 80 exacty, but close enough to it. Might be 78 or 79, denpending on what itsy bit I first grab that's broken to resharpen for ya. Principal and practice is the same in any case. You did notice I said I sharpen them under a 10x loupe, didn't you? Makes quite a difference.. I don't actually use 80s that often, since my number 30 handpiece won't actually grip them that small, requiring too much trouble then to hold onto them (have to wrap the shanks in a coil of binding wire. works better than the little drill chucks sold for the purpose. but still a pain in the ass.) I want to see you do that on a #80 bit. Not a snowball's chance in Hell! You're right. I don't try to split the points on bits that small. Even the super thin seperating disks are too clumsy/thick for those. But I can do it routinely to a 60. The split points aren't as neat looking as those factory split on a larger bit, but they work well enough, to the same effect. Send me that mailing address, I'll send you a sample of that too, if you like. And just to be clear, for me, at least, this is easy. At work, we've got, on the other side of the workroom, a small cabinet where new drill bits are stored by the dozen. When I dull or break a bit, I resharpen it simply because it's quicker and easier to do that, than it is to haul my lazy ass out of my chair and walk across the room to get a new one. Usually, the bit is in my #30 handpiece when it breaks or dulls. I pull that handpiece off the flex shaft, push on my usual quick release handpiece, put in the seperating disk that's usually sitting on the bench top anyway, drop the loupe that's usually parked on my forehead anyway over my eye, and retip the drill. Under the loupe, I can quickly line up the drill so a remaining bit of a ground face reflects light from the bench light. Holding that angle, I can touch the side of the sep disk to the tip, adjusting if needed the angle I'm holding the spinning handpiece so the angle it grinds matches the old one. If there isn't any original face, I just estimate, which usually works well enough. Grind to a bit past the point where the center of the drill is reached. Spin the chuck holding the drill 180 degrees and repeat till the second face is roughly in the middle. Change the angle slightly to relieve the back of that face, a second grind on each face if I want, and it's done. A good deal slower if I want to thin the web, since then I've got to dress the edge of the seperating disk till it's spinning really true, not always the case. But still not that hard to do under a good 10x loupe. To just sharpen the bit, I'd say it takes less than a minute from the moment when I decide the bit is dull, to when I'm back to drilling with it again. (unless the damn seperating disk is hiding from me or something...) Peter |
#27
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Took a class
MatthewK wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 05:38:23 +0000, Abrasha wrote: The items I ordered are not due until the 14th, would it be unreasonable of me to eat the shipping costs and start over? matthew ohio Just don't tell John Frei, that Abrasha gave you that idea. He'll never take me out on the Bay in his sail boat again. -- Abrasha http://www.abrasha.com |
#28
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Took a class
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 00:43:29 -0800, in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
wrote: MatthewK wrote: On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 05:38:23 +0000, Abrasha wrote: The items I ordered are not due until the 14th, would it be unreasonable of me to eat the shipping costs and start over? matthew ohio Just don't tell John Frei, that Abrasha gave you that idea. He'll never take me out on the Bay in his sail boat again. or me either, or I'll never get another discount from him again :-) And hey, I'm jealous of the boot thing. What I get for not living in the bay area, I guess. Dang. Seriously, though, I rather think if you eat the shipping costs, you'll have lost any price advantage you might have gotten from other dealers. You DO have fine tools. If you paid a few dollars more for em, don't worry too much about it at this point. As I said, Otto Frei is a fine dealer, and good folks to cultivate a working relationship with, especially should you ever need customer service, or service support on tools (they service tools and equipment too, you know, more than most dealers will) Peter |
#29
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Took a class
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:34:29 GMT in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
, pulled fingers out of his butt and stuck 'em in his mouth and said gsrmuumfmdmurmmscommwuummm: Peter W.. Rowe, wrote: (If any of you know where I can get a couple gross of 10/0 blades I'd be most appreciative.) Call Allcraft in New York. Tevel (the owner) was special ordering them from Germany. Hercules blades, I think. Really fine, and really fragile, but when you need em, they're way cool. Where'd you find 9/0 blades? The smallest I've seen commonly sold in the U.S. are 8/0s... The thinnest I've ever seen, period, are 8/0. What in the world do you need 10/0 for? I don't like that big chunk of metal removed when I want to separate one thing from another. It's just a personal preference. More a want than a need. BTW, if I'm simply cutting out a shape from a sheet I use 4/0. Frosty -- Anulos qui animum ostendunt omnes gestemus! |
#30
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Took a class
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:47:55 GMT in rec.crafts.jewelry Abrasha
, pulled fingers out of his butt and stuck 'em in his mouth and said gsrmuumfmdmurmmscommwuummm: Frosty wrote: Anyway it's an unbelievable substance that I put on my sawblades and it helps me cut straighter and easier and I don't break sawblades hardly at all (and I use 9/0 blades mostly.) A total waste of money. Spit is the best lubricant. Just lick your saw blades. Never fails. I've been doing it for more than 30 years. Email me a mailing address and I'll send you a free sample. You'll forever after reserve your tongue for more conventional displays. |
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