diamond buying

Hello.

when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy
their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport?

I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.
If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher.

For those of you in the trade, is this correct? if not, what % of rap?
i know the answer varies from the quality and other characterisitics of the
stones, but roughly generally speaking what % of rap?

thanks for your time.
Lawrence B. Lugar

Lawrence wrote:

Hello.

when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy
their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport?

I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.
If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher.

Why? You are a jeweler or wholesaler?
Is Rapaport a retail selling list? No? So why You do think to get the
same price as a jeweler?


Grüße,
Heinrich Butschal

--
www.juwelen.online-boerse.org
www.meister-atelier.de
www.schmuckfabrik.de
www.medico.butschal.de

I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.
If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher.

You won't even get a meeting with a real diamond dealer in Antwerp, you
aren't in the business (assumed by your post). Why would they give Joe Shmoe
off the street, the same price or courtsey, as someone who has done millions of
dollars in business with them?
For that matter, would you even be qualified to go through a parcel, if by
some wild stretch of the imagination you got in to see a real wholesaler? Could
you tell a VVS1, E from a VVS2, F? Could you tell a poorly cut stone from a
well cut stone? Those differences alone, in a three carat stone, can amount to
fifteen thousand dollars or so per stone. Could get kind of expensive in a
parcel, if you don't know what you're doing.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:26:30 -0700, in Ìô "Lawrence"
wrote:

Hello.

when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy
their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport?
I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.
If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher

The Rapaport list is not any sort of worldwide diamond price list. It's only one
firms estimate of NEW YORK diamond market prices at a specified, and somewhat
artificial and arbitrary pricing level, ie their idea of single stone, memo to a
jeweler, prices. it's intended not as a real price list, but as a benchmark,
which can be used by appraisers and dealers to track movements in prices. Actual
buying and selling prices vary by differing amounts from the rap list depending
on who you are, who you're buying from, what quantities your buying, how you're
paying, and the like. And it's still just a market average. Prices for similar
stones will vary from dealer to dealer. So asking what percentage off of rap you
might get in antwerp is almost impossible to answer exactly. the list doesn't
track overseas markets, nor does it track parcel purchases. Even amongst those
who do buy regularly at the described level in antwerp, the relationship to the
rap list at any one time will be quite variable. Going on a buying trip with
just the rap list as a reference point is a recipe for disaster. You need a good
amount of experience in the market, such that you no longer need a list like
rappaport to know what stones will cost, and what you can sell them for back
home.

Secondly, it's important to understand that buying diamonds at the level you're
hoping to do, is similar to doing the same thing at the New York Diamond dealers
club. You don't even get into the door unless you're known, or have a very good
introduction from someone who is. This isn't beginner territory, nor a place
where strangers get in the door. Very much an "old boys" network sort of thing,
both for security, and for traditional reasons. If you just go to Antwerp hoping
to buy diamonds, you may well get in the door at various cutting factories or the
like, but without those prior introductions, and the sellers being already well
aquanted with and assured of your trustworthyness and financial ability to be
buying in quantity, then the prices you'll be offered won't approach those
offered to those known to be true wholesale buyers. As much as anything, this
is a matter of those sellers making sure they're not pulling the rug out from
under their known long time customers, who otherwise might be selling to you here
in the States. It can be quite difficult for even well placed and financed
newcomers to break into that whole world, even in New York. Harder still in
Antwerp. If you can make the needed connections with those who can guide and
introduce you to that market, then you won't need to go there with a rap list in
hand.

Peter

"NE333RO" wrote in message
...
I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick
and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.
If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher.

You won't even get a meeting with a real diamond dealer in Antwerp,
you
aren't in the business (assumed by your post). Why would they give Joe
Shmoe
off the street, the same price or courtsey, as someone who has done
millions of
dollars in business with them?
For that matter, would you even be qualified to go through a parcel,
if by
some wild stretch of the imagination you got in to see a real wholesaler?
Could
you tell a VVS1, E from a VVS2, F? Could you tell a poorly cut stone from
a
well cut stone? Those differences alone, in a three carat stone, can
amount to
fifteen thousand dollars or so per stone. Could get kind of expensive in a
parcel, if you don't know what you're doing.

So you go to the 'Spring Fair' in Birmingham, England.

See www.springfair.com for details

You'll need a 'Jewellery Hall' ticket, you won't get in on an ordinary one,
but any UK Jewellery wholesaler or Jewellery equipment supplier will give
you one if you ask.

You go and see the Benelux Diamond Syndicate and De Beers, and a couple of
dozen other stone merchants, and then buy what you want at trade prices.

Everybody there is selling stuff at discounted prices, including the stone
sellers, especially the Far Eastern companies who don't have a UK agent and
are just there to sell their stock in the show week.

The big players won't rip you off, they've far too much to loose.

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government

Lawrence wrote:

Hello.

when jewelers go to antwerp, or another major world diamond center to buy
their diamonds at what price do they buy them at - what % of rapaport?

I've been told that when diamond parcel buyers go to antwerp to handpick and
buy their diamonds they usually pay 40% of rapaport.

Who told you this?

If I go to antwerp to buy a diamond parcel I want to be sure I pay what
everybody else pays, not higher.

Not a snowball's chance in Hell! Stay home!


For those of you in the trade, is this correct?

No, not even close. In order to buy diamonds wholesale in Antwerp, you either
have to be a member of one of the four diamond clubs
(http://www.blankadiamonds.be/diamonds/antwerp.htm) or have a very good
introduction by one of it's members to one of these clubs. If youare not buying
at the clubs, you are not buying wholesale, no matter what you think or are
being told.

I have been going to Antwerp ever since I was a very little boy. My uncle
Joseph had a small jewelry store on the Pelikaanstraat across the street oif the
railway station. I never set foot in one of the clubs.


if not, what % of rap?
i know the answer varies from the quality and other characterisitics of the
stones,

No, the answer varies "from the quality and other characterisitics" of the
buyer.

And lastly, sellers in Antwerp do not care all that much about the Rapaport
list. It is a list mostly used in the US, and is a GUIDELINE to prices only,
not a price list.

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com