Alice Starmore -- necks on fishermen sweaters

I've just treated myself to the Alice Starmore book _Fishermen's Sweaters_, and
I'm wondering something about the photographs. I remember reading somewhere, I
think in Maggie Righetti's _Knitting in Plain English_, that any knitting
designer who mucks about with big scarves round the neck is Hiding Something
about their ability to design decent necks. Well, there are all kinds of
interesting necks on these sweaters, but darned if you can get much of a look
at a lot of them with all the blasted things tucked in and around them. And
some of the ones that do show look *way* too floppy to me, particularly the
Stornaway. (I know she says it's oversized on purpose, all over, but I'm sorry,
the neck looks WRONG!)

Anyone else have this reaction? It's not that I don't like the patterns in
general, I do! Do you think it would be reasonable to do something like take
the neck instructions for the next size down?

This is all quite academic as I have promised my daughter a quite different
project first.

--Helen

My goodness, Helen...I think you're onto something here! I never realized
it before, but you're absolutely right. I see all these sweaters in these
expensive books, and I notice a common theme -- scarves. I never thought
about it until now...my first impression was always, "I would never wear a
scarf with a sweater."

Now to solve the big neck problem...I'm not sure if simply making the next
size smaller neck would necessarily work. I'm thinking that the number of
decreases leading up to a smaller neck would be just as important, as well
as the placement (the decreases should probably be more drastic and higher
up on the sweater to make the neck fit better), but if you're dealing with a
complex cable pattern or something, that might be difficult. Maybe the
designer had the same problem negotiating that as well.

My thoughts are, if you simply downsize just the neck, you might have a
strange looking drape or unsightly stretching around the shoulder area.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm unfortunately not very proficient at
sweater designing, but I do know how to sew, and I know that doing something
like this on a blouse wouldn't work.

I'm looking forward to seeing more solutions...

Allaya


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've just treated myself to the Alice Starmore book _Fishermen's
Sweaters_, and
I'm wondering something about the photographs. I remember reading
somewhere, I
think in Maggie Righetti's _Knitting in Plain English_, that any knitting
designer who mucks about with big scarves round the neck is Hiding
Something
about their ability to design decent necks. Well, there are all kinds of
interesting necks on these sweaters, but darned if you can get much of a
look
at a lot of them with all the blasted things tucked in and around them.
And
some of the ones that do show look *way* too floppy to me, particularly
the
Stornaway. (I know she says it's oversized on purpose, all over, but I'm
sorry,
the neck looks WRONG!)

Anyone else have this reaction? It's not that I don't like the patterns in
general, I do! Do you think it would be reasonable to do something like
take
the neck instructions for the next size down?

This is all quite academic as I have promised my daughter a quite
different
project first.

--Helen

Helen,

I haven't seen the Fisherman's book but I have Pacific Coast and Stillwater,
and whilst i think that AS is a master of design/colour use/patterns/details i
find that the necks are rather oversized for the pieces. I suppose that many
would wear something under them, but the UK climate doesn't often warrant that.
I also find that some of the designs are longer than i would choose.

Each to their own i suppose- i would adjust the pattern to make the neck
smaller (yet large enough to fit over my XL head and hair without damaging my
nose).

Regards
Sarah

Hi Helen,

Is there any way on the neck that you can go to a smaller size needle and have
it look nice?

Hugs,

Nora

When I was a kid, we always wore "ski scarves" in cold weather because all
our sweaters were very scratchy, even the turtle necks. I guess my father
had grown up with ski scarves in Europe and did not think anything about
scratchy necks on his sweaters. Ski scarves were a tradition, and always
worn with our sweaters.

In high school, I saw a lady get hung by her ski scarf on a ski lift. No
more ski scarves for me!

Now, the sweaters that I make for camping and fishing have bands of softer
yarns at the neck and wrists. I suppose they look funny, but there are not
many mirrors in the places that I wear those sweaters, and my companions are
not much for sartorial splendor either. g

The other side of the ski scarves tradition is that nice neck openings are
hard to knit. If ski scarves are a tradition, then the sweater knitters do
not have to take the time to make fancy neck details because nobody will see
them under the scarf! Design a knitting pattern with a really nice neck,
and it is likely to be for expert knitters only - that means that beginning
and intermediate knitters (most of the market for knitting patterns) will
not buy the pattern. (And, really expert knitters are likely to design
their own patterns.) That means less revenue for the designer. So designers
design neck openings that can be readily knit by lower level knitters so
they can sell more copies of the pattern. Such simple to knit patterns are
going to want something like a scarf to hide the neck line.

Recently, I was looking at the neckline of a really beautiful sweater. I
figured out how it was knit. But, that sweater was knit with the élan that
separates the talented professional from the merely competent amateur. I
could not knit those details in any reasonable length of time. I would be
like Penelope, weaving all day, and ripping the work out every night for
year after year.g

Aaron



"Allaya Diep" wrote in message
news:%sk1b.11107$S_.2814@fed1read01...
My goodness, Helen...I think you're onto something here! I never realized
it before, but you're absolutely right. I see all these sweaters in these
expensive books, and I notice a common theme -- scarves. I never thought
about it until now...my first impression was always, "I would never wear a
scarf with a sweater."

Now to solve the big neck problem...I'm not sure if simply making the next
size smaller neck would necessarily work. I'm thinking that the number of
decreases leading up to a smaller neck would be just as important, as well
as the placement (the decreases should probably be more drastic and higher
up on the sweater to make the neck fit better), but if you're dealing with
a
complex cable pattern or something, that might be difficult. Maybe the
designer had the same problem negotiating that as well.

My thoughts are, if you simply downsize just the neck, you might have a
strange looking drape or unsightly stretching around the shoulder area.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm unfortunately not very proficient at
sweater designing, but I do know how to sew, and I know that doing
something
like this on a blouse wouldn't work.

I'm looking forward to seeing more solutions...

Allaya


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've just treated myself to the Alice Starmore book _Fishermen's
Sweaters_, and
I'm wondering something about the photographs. I remember reading
somewhere, I
think in Maggie Righetti's _Knitting in Plain English_, that any
knitting
designer who mucks about with big scarves round the neck is Hiding
Something
about their ability to design decent necks. Well, there are all kinds of
interesting necks on these sweaters, but darned if you can get much of a
look
at a lot of them with all the blasted things tucked in and around them.
And
some of the ones that do show look *way* too floppy to me, particularly
the
Stornaway. (I know she says it's oversized on purpose, all over, but I'm
sorry,
the neck looks WRONG!)

Anyone else have this reaction? It's not that I don't like the patterns
in
general, I do! Do you think it would be reasonable to do something like
take
the neck instructions for the next size down?

This is all quite academic as I have promised my daughter a quite
different
project first.

--Helen

wrote:

Now to solve the big neck problem...I'm not sure if simply making the next
size smaller neck would necessarily work. I'm thinking that the number of
decreases leading up to a smaller neck would be just as important, as well
as the placement (the decreases should probably be more drastic and higher
up on the sweater to make the neck fit better), but if you're dealing with a
complex cable pattern or something, that might be difficult.

What I was thinking of is knitting the sweater as wide as, say, a medium, but
when it was time to put stitches from the middle of the front onto a holder, to
put on only as many as the size small called for, and ditto on the back yoke.
Then pick up the total number of stitches called for in the size small neck
pattern. The total number one would decrease to on the shoulders would of
course then be higher, because you'd be grafting the front and back of the
shoulder together further in towards the neck.

But maybe this would still be too deep front and back, and one would have to
knit the front and back yokes up a tad higher in order to keep the neck round.
I guess that is exactly what you just said above ... :-)

Or heck, just knit front and back alike and put in neck gussets, just the way I
did on the white gansey!

--Helen

Sue ) wrote:

Hi Helen,
I had the same impression,
snip

Oh, thank goodness, I wasn't nuts :-)

I have also made Lochinvar from the same book and the neck on that is not
grossly oversized, (no scarf visible!)

Yes, I agree. It is a little too close to the gansey I just made, though, and I
am thinking of a sweater for my husband. Neck sizes are really important on
him, by the way, as he is a tall skinny dude with sloping shoulders and a long
neck. Turtlenecks look ghastly on him and big floppy necks even worse. I'm
thinking a gansey with a patterned yoke and plain below would look good on him,
with a little bit of horizontal something in the yoke (or maybe the horizontal
lines below the yoke would be enough, not sure).

--Helen

Allaya one thing for sure if you can`t decrease stich number you can
take a SMALLER sized needle , this reduces part of the problem .
another one is if the pattern is hard to reduce stiche in , just stop
making the pattern and end with some ribbing , another thing i once
did was knitting the last rows [ in my case the first since i knit
from the neck down ,,] with an elastic thread [ the kind you can put
in yoor sewing machine ,,, another solotuinn that i tried i left all
stiches of the braids but rediuces the stiches in between and ribbed
them ....
i hope this gives you some more ideas ,,,
My thoughts are, if you simply downsize just the neck, you might have a
strange looking drape or unsightly stretching around the shoulder area.
Anyone have thoughts on this? I'm unfortunately not very proficient at
sweater designing, but I do know how to sew, and I know that doing something
like this on a blouse wouldn't work.
This is not a problem yoiu have to divide yoor increases Equaly all
around and if you can do it gradually , this will help , no strange
looking drapes or such.....
mirjam


I'm looking forward to seeing more solutions...

Allaya


"H Schinske" wrote in message
...
I've just treated myself to the Alice Starmore book _Fishermen's
Sweaters_, and
I'm wondering something about the photographs. I remember reading
somewhere, I
think in Maggie Righetti's _Knitting in Plain English_, that any knitting
designer who mucks about with big scarves round the neck is Hiding
Something
about their ability to design decent necks. Well, there are all kinds of
interesting necks on these sweaters, but darned if you can get much of a
look
at a lot of them with all the blasted things tucked in and around them.
And
some of the ones that do show look *way* too floppy to me, particularly
the
Stornaway. (I know she says it's oversized on purpose, all over, but I'm
sorry,
the neck looks WRONG!)

Anyone else have this reaction? It's not that I don't like the patterns in
general, I do! Do you think it would be reasonable to do something like
take
the neck instructions for the next size down?

This is all quite academic as I have promised my daughter a quite
different
project first.

--Helen