On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:19:15 -0700, in Ìô Jack Schmidling wrote:


You know, if you unfriendly types would read my message instead of reacting
to my name, things would be much more pleasant.


In this instance, Jack, I think Ted was attempting a bit of satirical humor,
not insult. He's impressed by the scope/scale of your projects. Most
newcomers are happy if they can manage, with much help, to cast a small thing
like a ring. Though I understand you've had prior sand casting experience,
perhaps Ted missed that. For a beginner, just jumping into casting something
the size of a chalice is rather more than a normal beginning task.

Again, I'm reminded of the old adage/definition, which states that experts are
the guys who know all the very many reasons why a thing is impossible, or
should not be done. Meanwhile, an amateur is the guy who, not knowing a thing
is impossible, goes ahead an naively does it...


Sand casting will give a most unusal texture to the surface....

That's why someone invented the lathe. Sand is more than adequate for
anyone other than a Troglodyte whose most sophisticated tool is a hammer.

now now. Be nice. Actually, hammer work is capable of far greater delicacy
than you can get with casting, even high tech methods other than simple sand
molds. For one thing, wrought silver, has a much finer crystal structure
without the pores and defects common to castings. The result is denser metal
that's much stronger, harder, and will take a much higher level of polish. All
the best holloware is made either by such methods, or on the commercial level,
via spinning lathes which also start with rolled/milled sheet metal and form it
to the desired shape by deforming, compressing, and otherwise working the metal
the way hammers do. It's also a good way to build up strong wrists and arm
muscles, as well as a good way to drive everyone in the neighborhood quite mad
due to the noise... And with hand raising (as the process of developing such
forms with hammers and stakes is called), you're not limited to the shapes one
can turn on a lathe. ovals, varied faceted forms, and completely free form
assymetrical forms are all possible.


Who said anything about using 100 oz for the cup? I said I have a number of
such ingots. Is it not possible just to use some of it?

Certainly nice to use.
the other option would be to cast a cylinder from the silver, then
turn the whole chalice up in a lathe. Fine silver turns very well.
that way you would achieve the shape and size without any soldering atall.
good lateral thinking......

Duh! But why not cast it close to the final shape and save a lot of
hogging?


Again, Ted strayed into the realm of humor...

Youll find using pure silver a much better option to the traditional
sterling .....

Ah.... finally something useful.


Fine silver doesnt get fire scale like the 925 alloy. To answer your
last question it isnt neccessary at all to alloy silver nor alloy gold.
Pure silver has the most beautiful white colour. When you see sterling
along side it theres no comparison......

So what is the point of sterling? Surely not to save a little silver.


Actually, this can be open to opinion. While fine silver has a white color,
and is not prone to the oxidation problems of sterling silver, it is
considerably softer. This softness, which makes many thinner forms impractical
to make or use, is the big disadvantage of fine silver. for example, you might
make a chalice via casting that might have a fairly delicate looking stem.
With sterling silver, that stem could be thinner, and still have enough
strength, while in fine silver, it would not be hard to make a stem that looks
nice but would be prone to bending when used. In the case of Ted's die struck
items, the work hardening of the striking process makes the silver quite hard
enough to hold up. but a fine silver casting will be fully annealed. That
will be a very soft piece of metal, compared to the same thing in sterling
silver.

Making broach settings are easier done by hammering the silver into a
die. the bigger the hammer the better.....

Where does one get the dies? I can't even find decent broaches.

Ted actually does something here most craftspeople don't do. he uses die
striking, via high pressure presses, or the old style of drop hammer (when he
refers to a 275 pound hammer, it's not one with a handle that you lift with one
arm, or even a normal sledge. it's likely a 275 lbs steel striking form that
drops in a frame to hit a die set mounted in the base. Making the dies is
the tool and die makers art. Generally one does not buy them, unless one gets
lucky and finds what is needed in some old defunct manufacturers stock, or on
ebay where such antique dies may be sold, etc. Gold machinery in providence
R.I. has bins and bins of the old dies. Commercially, these days, much more
work is produced by lost wax casting. (in investment, not sand. investment
looks a lot like plaster, but takes high temps, and produces much smoother
castings that you get with sand.)


Ill give some thought to making a chalice
this way, could be a new development.

You might need a real man's hammer for that one.

his 275 lb drop hammer would do it. Take a weight of that size, and drop is
from a height of, say, five or six feet. Calculate the energy imparted at
impact. It's quite a lot... Note that larger foms might be developed using a
sequence of progressive dies, not just one single strike.