Thread: Terminology
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Old June 6th 04, 04:48 PM
Karl Pollak
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Doug Turner wrote:

Most surgical knots are formed by passing a length of suture material
around some tissue then tying the ends together with a 2=1=1 knot. This is
what most surgeons call a "Surgeons Knot". To make them more secure
surgeons will often add more throws eg 2=1=1=1 etc. Trouble is they still
come undone some times.


Doug, I take it that you are talking about silk sutures, rather than
sythetic ones. Unfortunately, the advantage of natural fibers (being
soluable) become also its disadvantage, if it disolves too soon. The only
suggestion of a layman I can make for situations where such is likely, to
simply double up on the thread.

If it is the knot itself that becomes unraveled on its own, yes you do have
a problem. Most likely the type of material you use is given by the
situation in which it is being used. The kind of knot you use is usually
given by the material you have at hand and the purpose for which it is
used.

So you are left with finding a different knot. Personally, I don't think
this is the place to find it. We're used to play with fishing lines and
cables and ropes and all sorts of other fun things, but I doubt there is
one amongst us who had ever tested his knotting skills inside somebody
else's body.

A surgical forum would probably yield better results.

As a last resort. What you are desctribing does not sound to me like the
knot we knot tyers call "surgeon's knot". I am sure that tehre will be
somebody on the net who does have an illustration of it on his website, if
you would Google the term "surgeon's knot". In the remote possoibility
that even the serach gives no joy, Somebody here will gladly scan and
e-mail you an illustration.

Essentially surgeon's knot is a variation of the reef or square knot in
which the second time you wind the two different ends around each other,
you do 3 or 4 passes instead of a simple one. The additional friction is
believed to hold the knot more secure. The reef knot on its own is not
intended for holding too well without some load and untying it
easily/quickly is considered one of its advantages.

--
Karl Pollak, Richmond, British Columbia
Sea Scouting in Canada at http://www.seascouts.ca/
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