You know Aaron , it is not the first time we have tottaly different
opinions about Knitting matters, and it is ok and gives some flavour
to this group. But we both also live in a tottal different Globus ,,,
Even though i am an excellent knitter [ it sounds not nice to speak
well of oneself , but i am still in the No nonesenses mood of having
walked on the edge of death and life] , i would like to do it better ,
i want and need things to be in a pace i can enjoy , I AM NOT IN ANY
MARATHON , i am not competing with anybody.....
Less effort is not always the source for faster work ... But i am not
debating this with you , just sharing a LIFE long observation...
mirjam

I have no problems with anyone knitting as slowly as they want to.

But, I want to be a better knitter. I want to knit with less effort.

A by-product of knitting with less effort is knitting faster.

Speed is not the goal. Knitting with less effort is the goal.



Aaron


"The Other Kim" wrote in message
...
Aaron, I read through everything you wrote. Just from my perspective,
as one who prefers to knit textures and lace, speed is the farthest
thing from my mind. Even when I'm knitting a plain sock it's not a
concern. I don't understand the "need for speed" that's so prevalent in
society. Why can't knitting be an enjoyable leisurely endeavor? With
my days as hectic as they are, with kids, job, regular household chores,
medical issues, and now the extra work of putting the house back
together after having wood floors installed, it's nice to pick up the
needles at night and relax.

Your last comment about knitting smart came off to me as dissing those
of us who choose to not knit as quickly or "efficiently" as possible.
Hel, I know my knitting style is suboptimal and would rightly be called
inefficient, but I honestly can't pick; I simply cannot hold the yarn in
my left hand properly (I'm dominantly right handed and can't do much of
anything with my left hand). Trust me, I've tried many times, and
others have tried to show me how but all have given up when it became
obvious that my left hand is incapable of independent thought g

Speed knitting may be fine for some, but let me and other "inefficient"
knitters plod along, okay?

The Other Kim
kimagreenfieldatyahoodotcom

wrote in message
...
A long time ago, I worked for an engineering firm. Our motto was
"Better!
Faster! Cheaper!"

Doing things better or faster or cheaper means knowing the current
quality,
speed, and cost. So we measured, and we improved. We did not try to
work
harder, we tried to work smarter. We tried to make fewer mistakes, so
we
had less rework. We tried to cut waste, so we could reduce our
customer's
costs. We did. Measuring pays!

I want to be a better knitter, so I measure. Does this method or that
method
provide a better product? Which needles provide a more consistent
tension?
I want to knit faster, so I measure. Does this method or that method
allow
me to work faster? I do not want to race, I want to work smarter. I
do not
want to work harder, I want to get more done with less effort. Is
that
wrong?

When I first posted here, some 4 years ago, it took me more than 5
minutes
to KNIT a row of 100 stitches. Now, I can knit a row of 100 stitches
in as
little as ~35 seconds (1.7 sps). When I made my first knitting sheath
last
fall, it took me half a minute to move from one working needle to the
next.
Small changes to the design of the knitting sheath (and some practice)
have
reduced the time to change needles to less than 3 seconds. (Yes,
Dennis, you
got the first of the faster design.) That faster needle change is
not
"racing." It is working smarter. It is getting more done with less
effort.
I try different things and I measure to see which one offers better
results.
Am I the only one here that says this approach is common sense?

The standard for modern competition knitting has evolved to use 4 mm
needles, and DK yarn to produce stockinette fabric on 60 stitch rows.
It has
been reasonably pointed out that under those conditions, the current
world
champion can only knit/purl 255 stitches in three minutes (1.4 sps)
and the
record is only 355 stitches in 3 minutes (1.97 sps). But, I am not a
competition knitter and I will never be fast enough to be a
competition
knitter. So, I do not train for those conditions, and I do not time
myself
under those conditions.

First, I use US # 1 needles. Smaller needles mean that the tips do not
have
to move as far in forming the stitch, therefore at a given number of
stitches per minute, the required acceleration to move the needles at
the
required speed is much less. In addition, less yarn is required to
form the
stitches on the smaller needles so less effort is required to move the
yarn.
In short, knitting fast with skinny needles is much easier than
knitting
fast with fat needles. Skinny needles may require more precision, but
they
require less strength, force, and energy. Try it, you will see.
Measure it!
Moreover, the physics of knitting with fine (steel) needles and a
knitting
sheath is very different than knitting with 4 mm needles, *even if a
pouch
is being used*. It is the difference between a rigid lever (4 mm
needles)
and a spring acting as a lever (thin needles). The rigid lever
requires
twice as many hand motions. You would know this if you had every tried
it.
((Yes, you could develop a 4 mm diameter spring, but the geometry of
the tip
would then cause problems. To accommodate the length of the tip
taper, the
length of the spring would have to be so long as to be unwieldy.))

Thus, *the rules of the knitting competitions are set to exclude the
speed
knitting tools and techniques of traditional hand knitters*.

Second, I time myself on a single straight knit row. The Champion's
time
was for very different and more difficult task. You can not compare
"Quarterhourse Race" times to "Steeple Chase" times, and you can not
compare my straight row times to the Champion's time. They are very
different tests. My knitting one row is more similar to the rules for
19th
century speed knitting, when they knit rounds so there were needle
changes,
but no turns or purling.

Before we dismiss the reported speeds of 200 stitches per minute for
19th
century speed knitters as unlikely, let us think about this for a
moment.
At that time, contract knitting was a profession with tools, methods,
and
supplies optimized for fast hand knitting. Many thousands of people
were
trained in specialized methods of speed knitting, and they were highly
incentivized to knit as fast as possible. Essentially everyone in the
population with a talent for speed knitting was found, trained, and
forced
to practice for years. Those speeds of 200 spm were not for modern
contests of back and forth production of stockinette on fat needles -
it
was knitting rounds on fine steel needles, with knitting sheaths, so
the
spring of the steel finished the stitch in a flash, and they were
using the
fastest yarn available. It was a different test. And, it was not the
best
of a few, it was the best of a great many.

They had large pools of highly trained and practiced speed knitters
from
which to select the fastest knitters. We do not even teach speed
knitting
any more. They had needles, sheaths, and yarns that were highly
optimized
for speed knitting, and they had long daily practice at squeezing
every bit
of speed out of those tools and yarn. The Shetland production
knitters do
knit fast, but *traditional Shetland yarns do not lend themselves to
real
speed knitting*. Thus, Shetland production knitting is not the kind
speed
knitting with *wassit* that was practiced by contract knitters of the
Channel Islands or Cornwall or The Dales. Moreover, real speed
knitting
tools are not allowed in the knitting competition. Thus, modern
knitting
contests are not a reflection of what was possible in days past, or
even a
reflection of what is possible today with real speed knitting tools
and
materials. Who knows, in a year or two, Dick, or myself may even
break that
magic 600 stitches in 3 minutes mark (3.3 sps). Or, maybe Wooly will
be the
first one to knit a BLUE STREAK, if she can find a fast enough yarn.
(HINT)

Today, we want yarns that "feel good." When was the last time anyone
in this
group selected a yarn primarily because it knit fast? A knitting
sheath
will almost double your knitting speed, but who uses a knitting sheath
any
more? We no longer select hand knitting needles just because the are
very
fast. We are not hungry, so we want needles that "feel good."
'Addies"
are not the fastest needles out there, but who, here can stand up, and
say
confidently say, "My needles are faster!"? These days we do not knit
fast
because we do not really try.

Do not blow off claims of fast knitting just because you have not put
thought into what it would take to knit fast. Do you have speed trial
times
for all your needles? What is the fastest yarn in your stash? What is
the
fastest yarn in your LYS? How many knitting sheath designs have you
tried
knitting with? Do you knit faster with the knitting sheath low on
your hip
like the Cornish contract knitters from the School of Industry? Or,
do you
knit faster with it higher on your waist like the Terrible Knitters of
the
Dales? Do you find diminishing returns as you move to needles finer
than 2
mm? Or, is that just my fat fingers?

Does all that sound like a lot of work that would take a lot of time?
I
have 5 pattern swatches here on my desk. They are the same pattern
from
Gladys Thompson, all knit on # 1 needles, just with different yarns.
The
three that I knit a year ago as I started to move to smaller needles
each
took me a long evening to knit. The two that I did last week took
about 15
minutes each including cast on and bind off. After, I had blocked
them, I
saw that I had made a mistake in one of the bind-offs, so I just knit
it
again. (These are yarn tests so I knit them from virgin yarn.) I love
knitting fast. Putting in the effort to learn to knit faster has
actually
saved me time.

Unless you have really thought about knitting fast, then you can not
judge
the validity of claims about knitting fast. I think about fast
knitting,
not because I want to race or get in the record books. I think about
fast
knitting because I like working smart.

Knitting is good. Knitting fast is better. Knitting smart is
wonderful.

Aaron


"Richard Eney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote:
Why is it important to know how quickly somebody knits ?

For all reasonable purposes, it makes no difference how fast
anyone knits.

The point of contests is partly a desire for accuracy in reporting,
and partly to test a historical claim.

Almost every knitting book (even those from different countries)
repeats the old claim that the gansey knitters could reach speeds
of 200 stitches per minute.

Up to now, when timed with accurate stopwatches in official
competitions,
the fastest modern knitters don't even reach 100 stitches per minute.
(This reminds me strongly of the fact that modern horses, timed by
accurate stopwatches over measured miles, somehow never match the
speeds reported for certain horses in the 19th century.)

They were not handicapped and thereby were carring less weight than
modern
horses of the same classs. 60 pounds can make a difference : )

It seems to me that the "200 stitches per minute" claim is usually
repeated to sneer at modern knitters as weaklings or incompetent, and
to raise the knitters of the past to a pedestal. Yet I doubt that
the
human beings 100 years ago were that much faster than, for instance,
Hazel Tindall, who has knitted all her life using the same techniques
they used (she uses a Shetland knitting belt).

Aaron's reported speed beats the officially recorded competition,
though as far as I know he isn't purling, just knitting, which could
make a significant difference. His spring steel needles may be
greatly responsible for the speed reported, too. The finer antique
needles available to most were at best ordinary steel, sometimes iron
or brass.

There will be another international competition in the next year or
two. I would like to see Aaron compete if he can get to New York
City.
It would be really neat for him to demonstrate the refinements of
sheath-knitting that he has discovered.
Failing that, there's always the Guinness Book of World Records,
which also requires certain kinds of documentation.

Of course, there is the element that the standard competition
materials are not at gansey gauge. Also, because of varying local
standards, the speed of a national champion of France can't be
easily compared to that of a national champion of Germany, for
instance.

In the international competition, all will be using the same standard
format and materials. I believe it is:
knit for three minutes, 60 stitches wide, stockinette,
using DK wool (light worsted weight in the USA), on 4mm (US size 6,
UK size 8) straight needles (dpns are allowed).
I'm pretty sure the cast-on can be done in advance, but I would think
that the starting stitch has to be marked.

In one contest (France, I think), knitters all used the same needles,
one after another, but each one used a different color of yarn, so
the exact stitches could be counted and nobody had to cast on.
But in the international one, knitters provide their own needles.
I don't know about the yarn; I think it would be provided, to be sure
everyone was working with the same qualities.

=Tamar