|
|
The Beadmakers Liberation Front
I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!!
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, "meijhana" wrote:
I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary Thank you so much for that link! I too was feeling the same way they were. I also thought I was selling to low and have change my direction of though. Mary... I never considered myself a designer... but I do now. :) After all... I did design and create a beautiful necklace and a few other items and I did not give myself the proper credit untill the lovely person who bought my first ever creation told me how wonderful she loved it and it was beautiful. It was then I had to tell myself over and over that she was right and my brain was lying to me. Just a check in... did I set my starting bid at a fair price? I am new at this stuff and have no idea what I am really doing, but I do know this... if I saw this from anyone else I would buy it in a second. I have bought others items that were similar and was very happy with them. :) Let's face it... anyone who would pay what I do for RAW Paua shell has to have a love for it. BTW I do want more than just my money back, so I can buy and create other more interesting and beautiful items. ALL of YOU are so good for me! Thank you so much! Harry My Ebay Auctions are at http://snipurl.com/3okw |
Aside from beads, I have a different home based business, that is a
family entertainment company. I perform as a balloon artist, comedy entertainer, clown and magician. I sing the same lament on that one as well. All too often, a creative endeavor is sold for less than it's worth. On the opposite side is that people really want the most for their money and might not be really willing to pay for what you are ... catch 22, huh ? People try to bargain. Really bad entertainers shine a sorry light on that business and people who cheapen the percieved value of beads and beadwork do as well. My work is fairly high quality, but you shoud see those folks who try to wear me down on the prices. And the seller who doesn't adjust their prices does us all a disservice. Having recently sold much of my precious work at greatly rduced prices, I know how it feels to get less than it's worth. The buyer delighted to get my stuff for way less. ( Not you Margie ... you're an honorable person, and a nice lady ! ). Of the two buyers, one of them will not even answer any emails. I don't even know if she lke what she bought. To her it was cheap stuff to stock her store with. The artistic value of it doesn't matter at all. About the most you can ever do is to remain strong and educate people. Hope that your buyers know your work and love it and buy it necause they realize value. Casual craftspeople and people who sell cheap, are mostly doomed, anyway. They can't really make that much money and soon will work themselves out of business, and their craft becomes a hobby they don't make money with. Rainbow |
That's great!
-- Barbara www.penguintrax.com eBay: pnguintrax Justbeads:penguintrax 0 /O\ Need web hosting? Check out http://www.lyonshost.com "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
Rita says:
"....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.
If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only
of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote:
I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary This goes for anything one is selling.. People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time.. It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary.. Mavis |
somebody just brought that up over there.
And even if you are a "beginner" or a "hobbyist", you still at need to price it to a certain minimum, not just "enough to get costs back" and there are those who don't even do that!!! But I wouldn't expect to pay $150 for a strand of 10 beads, without corina's, or Kandice's name behind them, especially if I see uneven dots, 2 bubbles where one should be, uneven holes, beadrelease still in them, etc. That's where the fact that you should pay yourself for time, but at a rate of what your learning level is. You wouldn't expect to pay someone who just got out of plumbing school the same as a person who has been doing it for 20 years (or someone who has been apprenticing for 6 months, etc). Time in grade/pay needs to be accounted for. mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446744.695817@prawn... Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the
intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the
bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:
Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO Mavis |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 15:16:44 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:
I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. I've never believed in price fixing or a group governing prices... but I don't think this is what they are getting at. I think the whole thrust of the thread is pricing which reflects the value of the beads.. the worth of them - not only to the beader/artist but also to the customer. For example, if I purchase something for nix, then it's not worth much to me.. whereas if I purchase something for a reasonable price then it becomes more valuable/precious to me. Hence, I will take more care with it etc, etc... Blah, blah, blah... Hope that all makes sense Mavis |
On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:19:02 -0800, Kandice Seeber wrote:
***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. Objectivity is a good thing Kandice... Calls for open-mindedness though. It'll be interesting to see.. heh,heh Mavis |
Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o)
First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would
have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason he's not selling it anymore. I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually sell LESS. Go figure... Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are low. -- Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels JustBead Auctions http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770 PayPal Merchant Account https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C "AmazeR" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote: I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary This goes for anything one is selling.. People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time.. It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary.. Mavis |
If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals.
That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money someone is making. And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads. Tina "AmazeR" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 20:59:05 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote: Another thing about the admonishment to raise prices, is that is true only of professional work, and I would guess that there are more hobbyist and learning beadmakers out there than there are professionals. Tina If it's good enough to sell, it doesn't matter if you are a hobbyist or a beginner.. The sentiment is the same.. It's worth the extra $ - IMNSHO Mavis |
Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem?
Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
"Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
Try selling computers! I did that for three years for a major computer
manufacturer. I'd configure a system based on what the client wanted to do with it only to have them go to Circuit City and buy an $800 integrated system for playing high end games. I still remember a kid who came in with his dad to buy his system for college - graphics design major. I configured a system for about $1800, with printer and office software. He wanted the $600 computer - fully integrated, barely enough RAM to run Windows, Works Suite, and a 15" monitor. I tried telling him that that system wasn't made for his usage. He looked at me with such a haughty look and ask if I was going to be a graphic design major. I told him no but I had 22 years of drafting, including 7 years of doing printed circuit board design with CAD software. He said that wasn't the same thing and I informed him it was - both are graphics intensive and that system wasn't for him. He insisted, Dad bought it. And after they left the store I added text to the order that I advised the client that that system was NOT going to suit his needs for the next four years. I tried my honest best to get people the most value for their money and I was treated like a used car salesperson! I will never put myself in that position again. I hold nothing against the company, which closed our location last March and left me without a job. I can't do anything about the commission-hungry sharks that are out there stealing money from people who don't know what to get when it comes to computers. "Karleen/Vibrant Jewels" wrote in message hlink.net... My hubby used to sell insurance. He had the same problems there. He would have a good product and spend a lot of time and effort learning about it and teaching potential clients about it, only to have them go to a cheaper alternative... then they would have the gall to come back and complain to my hubby because the service stunk or the product was bad ... that's one reason he's not selling it anymore. I have a certain price in mind when I sell beads, kits or jewelry - it includes my cost, my time and my creativity. If I can't get that price, I'd just as soon give it away! I've found over and over again when I cut my prices to try to sell more - say when I'm in a financial jam - I actually sell LESS. Go figure... Well that's what AutumnH said in the forum "I learned long ago (as a Mary Kay consultant) that lowering a price lowers the perceived value." It's just hard to stick it out and keep believing in your own vision when sales are low. -- Vibrant Jewels Online Bead & Jewelry Store http://www.vibrantjewels.com/jewelry/welcome.htm Karleen Page/Vibrant Jewels JustBead Auctions http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=21770 PayPal Merchant Account https://www.paypal.com/mrb/pal=7XJ98L86Z7S2C "AmazeR" wrote in message ... On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 06:08:06 -0800, meijhana wrote: I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary This goes for anything one is selling.. People say to us (DH & I run another business) our prices are higher than the opposition and that they'll go with them.. we say fine, but don't expect the same quality. They come back in time, because they recognise the quality of our product - we have seen this time and again. People don't just buy on price - they want quality too. I've said this before.. If I see a cheap product I think 'I wonder what's wrong with it?' and will buy the dearer product almost every time.. It only lowers our self-esteem to sell below the value something is worth. I just won't do this.. I'm worth more than that and my products are too.. I fully support this thread. All power to Rita!! And thank you Mary.. Mavis |
Nope. I had marked your other post as unread so I could reply to it. I
totally agree that what I'm going to do with the bead(s) plays a part in how much I feel I can pay. I'll pay more for a bead for me than one that I'm going to put into a piece to try and sell. I also look at the size of the sets - I tend to not use an entire set in any piece I make. So I may see a large set that I love, but can't see being able to make enough pieces out of it (repetition gets old for me) so I may not buy or bid. And I'm watching this thread here and at WC since I'm just getting started selling finished pieces and hopefully, when I think my beads are ready, to sell beads also. Kathy K "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset
because you were selling items less than they were? Kathy K "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do
make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but for some people ebay is what works. One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective. I've gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc. I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still working on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are doing it. Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white - raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world. Kathy K "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... ***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale
being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too. Tina "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker.
http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging $250 for wholesale. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this. Tina "KDK" wrote in message ... Nope. I had marked your other post as unread so I could reply to it. I totally agree that what I'm going to do with the bead(s) plays a part in how much I feel I can pay. I'll pay more for a bead for me than one that I'm going to put into a piece to try and sell. I also look at the size of the sets - I tend to not use an entire set in any piece I make. So I may see a large set that I love, but can't see being able to make enough pieces out of it (repetition gets old for me) so I may not buy or bid. And I'm watching this thread here and at WC since I'm just getting started selling finished pieces and hopefully, when I think my beads are ready, to sell beads also. Kathy K "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076446594.244893@prawn... One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina "meijhana" wrote in message ... I was impressed by this, and wanted to share!!! http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/show...73#post2015373 I think we should adopt it as jewelry designers, too (and that means you, too, Harry, both as a jewelry designer and as a supplies crafter). Too many times do we hear "I just want to get my money back", and with this, I think we can start to educate others, both as buyer and as fellow seller. Mary -- Mr. Winky says "Glass shards are beautiful, but they can be painful." -- www.shardsoglass.com ================ MeijhanaDesigns - Unique Earrings and More! http://www.meijhanadesigns.com mary at meijhanadesigns dot com HandcraftedJewelry.com http://snipurl.com/45w5 check out my store! |
I don't usually top-post, but I think this needs to be said again....
Mavis On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 02:40:45 +0000, DreamBeadr wrote: Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o) First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:06:57 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:
If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals. That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money someone is making. And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads. Tina Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick.. If the Quality is the same (not so likely comparing beginners/hobbyists to professionals) then the value should surely be similar.. Having said this, I agree that not so nice beads should not be priced anywhere near the professionally made/quality made beads. They are simply not the same product, hence, not worth the same $ value. The extra $ worth I was talking about was if the bead was under-valued when put up for sale - Not as compared to a professionally made bead. Hope this makes better sense.. Mavis |
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:37:55 +0000, Christina Peterson wrote:
Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker. http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging $250 for wholesale. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this. Tina ROFL - Get their prices!! I wonder if they sell any.. It surely makes your point... Mavis :-)) |
Freakin' well said, Beki!! I think the group is well-intentioned and made
up of good people. I also think that they need to consider that their liberation front may not change the market to what they want to change it to, because that just isn't the way it works on ebay. I agree about the use of the term Nazi as well. While the group *is* trying to get people to not post 99 cent auctions, and to raise their prices in general, several have come forward and said that trying to police pricing just isn't fair. Some others came right out and said they *do* wish there was a price guideline that everyone had to follow, and that they should call out certain lampworkers and try to get them to change. That's what got me fired up. But Nazi just isn't the right term, and is pretty mean, actually. Here's what I posted there earlier today. I got several private messages that were positive, but most people in the thread have not responded to what I said. ""holding breath, jumping in Okay. I wasn't going to post anything in this thread, but after reading it all, I really want to now. I applaud the good intentions. I love Rita - she's fabulous, as an artist and as a person. However, I have a few issues with this Liberation Group, and I am going to post my opinions about it, while still trying to honor the fact that this whole idea is about empowering and respecting art. Issue #1, which was brought up by someone else (thank goodness, otherwise I would be too afraid to post my thoughts) - 99 cent auctions are not always about perceived value. I have said this before and I will say it again - I post 99 cent bead sets on ebay to reduce ebay fees, and because I have confidence that my beads will get a good price. I have only been disappointed once or twice. eBay is an auction house, *not* a retail outlet. It's a game to many cusotmers. People do need to ba a little more lenient about price, but I *do* understand the need to ask for prices you can accept. That means when you list something, you need to be ready for what the market decides to do with it. So admonishing people for listing at 99 cents or 9.99 or 99.99 or what have you, is really not something that I see as good. A couple of artists have actually been named here in this thread, and some have been alluded to. That's not fair. Issue #2, which is a broad and multi-faceted issue - Everyone in this art field needs to take a good long look at if and why they are not selling their pieces for what they would like to. There's a whole huge range of skill in this group. Some beadmakers / glass artists cannot command higher prices due to a whole bunch of reasons that need to be addressed. You can't just increase your prices, stand back and watch the money pour in. You need to consider your buyers. You're not letting them in on this group action - they will have no idea why you're doing what you're doing. To raise prices, you also need to raise the bar where quality is concerned. I am not just talking about the quality of the bead itself - I also mean the quality of service, and the quality of the auctions themselves. Someone posted guidelines on their web site and was torn to pieces on this forum, even though she is a buyer who spends a lot of money on lampwork. Customers need to be listened to. I know we all just want to make what we want and have it sell, but the bottom line is that the market does not always work exactly that way. There needs to be a blend of market research and artistic expression. If pink is really in this season, that's going to be what sells a lot. If you decide not to go with that flow, because you hate pink, that's totally fine, but you need to keep that in mind when pink stuff is selling for higher than your stuff. That's an over-simplified example, of course. And you know, I see a LOT of people complaining about ebay. Yet, there are successes on ebay *all the time* in the very categories we sell in. We all need to look at that and figure out *why*. I am not saying to ask those sellers for their secrets, or try and copy them. I am saying that we need to focus on bettering ourselves as artists. People have success because they make it. They pay their dues, work like dogs, have talent, and *make their success*. Stop complaining about ebay sucking. Start doing your homework and figuring out why ebay sucks for you. It's not always a "slow time of year" there. Issue #3 - ebay is not black and white. It's a grey whale, baby. There's no "one way" to make it work. There's no one answer. There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of lampworkers listing there. You may think this group is large, here, but it's only a small fraction of the lampworkers listing on ebay. Your group may not get the results you're looking for, so be prepared for that. Okay - I know I have been the person to post an opposing opinion on several of these types of issues on this forum. If y'all want me to go away, just let me know. I can handle that. But the many new threads about ebay being crap, and complaining about not getting the prices you want for your beads is getting really irksome to me. Maybe it's because I am not having the same problems you all are. And you know what? No one ever asks me why. Does any one care why?"" -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Wow, I have so many issues I could bring up about this concept. =o) First, I would like to comment that I am offended when people use the term Nazi lightly. There is nothing even remotely similar to lampworkers and a Nazi. Second, while I feel the concept of people placing a personal value on their own work is a good one, determining an industry standard, just because you happen to produce a product within a certain category, just won't work. That would be like asking all beadweavers to charge at least X amount of dollars per hour for their work. Their lives may be so busy that their hourly worth is tremendous, but they may not yet have all the skills to produce a quality piece of beadwork. Third, I have been involved in the beading world for over 30 years now. I started creating simple beaded pieces with my Grandmother at age 8. By age 12, I was selling simple beaded jewelry to friends, at the beach and at small craft shows. By 18 I was selling beads. By 25 I had an established retail store. While I am not the most experienced person in this industry, I am very experienced. I have made it my life to learn as much about beads in all their forms as I can. Along with that self-education comes a bit of understanding on how the market (as it relates to beads and beading) works. There will always be the person who feels they need to "undercut" the next guy to stand out. There will always be the person who feels the "value" of their time is worth more than the average market will bear. There will always be the person who understands their worth, and is willing to work with the market demand to find that happy medium. That being said, there is such a tremendous influx of lampworkers at this time, that the market will be thin. This is the progression of any industry. As the market thins, your competition increases. You can compensate for that by looking within ones self and determining what it is you as an individual can do to change. You can use your competition to better yourself. (which, I feel, is what should always be done) This same set of standard rules of business apply to any field. Beadmakers, beadsellers, beaders, etc. Your service, your reputation, your style, your adaptability, your personal input into the industry, all of these things are what can help set you apart from your competition. This is what will raise the value of what you have to offer. Not what others choose to sell for. The value of the beads I sell are in direct relation to their quality, my service, my reputation, and the volume I sell them in. They are not, nor will they ever be, in relation to what others sell theirs for. I do however, work under a standard industry guideline. I do not intentionally undercut others and I do not overprice. Were I to make my own beads for sale, I would again follow along those same guidelines. I would understand what the market can bear, I would learn where and who my customers are, and I would supply them with what they want at the prices they demand. If I were really lucky, I would be some of the very few who know how to escalate themselves to the top of that imaginary list of the best of the best.. =o) If the online auction places are not bringing you the dollar amount you feel you deserve, then find the location that will. It works better to locate your customers rather than try to force yourself upon them. While the entire bead industry can and should be viewed as one big family, it is the individuals within that family that make it what it is. A think a revolution to help others learn to value themselves as artists, craftspeople, creators, sellers, business people, etc would garner much more worth. Beki http://www.whimbeads.com |
Well, it makes sense...however, art is completely subjective. There are no
two beads exactly alike, so it's harder to price fix. Computer parts and insurance plans may vary form place to place, but have generally identifiable values. A set of lampwork art beads can be seen as ugly and worthless by one person and beautiful and worth a lot to another. Quality is an issue, but is only part of the equation. And ebay is still a capitalist environment. You absolutely cannot enforce or even imply a general price fix on anything - even things which are the same. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net \ If someone makes a professional product, I consider them professionals. That's why I differentiated between them and beginners/hobbyists. I'm obviously referring to the a level of expertise as opposd to how much money someone is making. And frankly, I looked at Wet Canvas and went to some of the bead site of the people making comments. Not all of them made nice beads. Tina Sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick.. If the Quality is the same (not so likely comparing beginners/hobbyists to professionals) then the value should surely be similar.. Having said this, I agree that not so nice beads should not be priced anywhere near the professionally made/quality made beads. They are simply not the same product, hence, not worth the same $ value. The extra $ worth I was talking about was if the bead was under-valued when put up for sale - Not as compared to a professionally made bead. Hope this makes better sense.. Mavis |
Of course not. But the fact is, that lampwork art beads are selling better
than lampwork art jewelry right now, so costs are higher and sales lower for the jewelry designer than the lampwork artist, in general. There are more jewelry designers than lampwork artists, especially on ebay. It's supply and demand. A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used. If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. Take the cottage rose flowers and bunny sets for $200. What could a necklace of those beads be sold for? According to most formulas, I should double the price of my materials and add in my time at $40 per hour (for the amount of time a fast professional would take to make it), to come up with wholesale and double that for a retail price. So theoretically, it should sell for At the very very least $900. More if it is especially well designed. OK then do it backwards. If a necklace of those beads could be sold for $500, and I am selling my skills as an artist, not as a retailer, I would only get $250 wholesale, which would barely cover my costs to make the necklace and get it to the gallery. Now, I don't think THAT is reasonable. I'm finding that when I make jewelry from a set of lampwork, my mark up on materials is very small, and I can't make more than a profit of $20 or $30 on a necklace that will sell at the gallery for $150 to $200. Tina |
Actually, she sells a LOT.
-- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Here's jewelry offerred by a beadmaker. http://www.blackberrybeads.com/Finis...Necklaces.html Considering the prices for these items, I guess I should be charging $250 for wholesale. I'm not picking on anyone. I'm just trying to get a feel for this. Tina ROFL - Get their prices!! I wonder if they sell any.. It surely makes your point... Mavis :-)) |
I totally agree. :) For me, ebay is still the second best venue with my
website being the best. Except maybe for a local show. Other shows - I have to factor in travel costs and such, which can be substantial, depending on location. Galleries/bead stores want wholesale or consignment. Ebay/PayPal/Credit Card fees come up to about 20% of my prices, generally speaking, and shipping is really inexpensive. So far, I have gotten really decent prices on ebay. My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out to be very good. Why? When others say the market sucks and sales are down? Because I work really freaking hard, and I do my homework. I don't undervalue my work. I work with the market to get the best prices I can while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly can. Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and listen to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this is an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much effort. :) Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks me with a tomato!! -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but for some people ebay is what works. One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective. I've gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc. I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still working on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are doing it. Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white - raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world. Kathy K "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... ***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
"Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... My website is by far the best venue, though, but takes a lot more time and energy to run than my ebay presence. So I do both, and they average out to be very good. This is great!!! When people work at it, then it can be a great system for them. I don't undervalue my work. This was one of the points I was trying to make. I work with the market to get the best prices I can while giving buyers the highest quality, most pleasing beads I possibly can. YEAH!!!!! Anyone with a little talent can do this if they work hard at it, and listen to their customers. People complain way too much and tend to think this is an easy way to earn lots of money, and think they can do so without much effort. I understand that. But also, some people don't know how to start, or how to find out the information. Sometimes it's "laziness" (i.e. let eBay sell the item for me. If I put it on there, it should automatically sell with 5million bids). I think part of this is not just "let's set prices" but the education, also. It's not just support of "aww, poor baby, you aren't getting your prices, but you need to raise them". But support should also be sharing of hints and help. But not specifically "Here's the formula for selling your items and making a million like I do". I agree with most people when someone comes on here, and says "how do I sell, and where?". There should be some research, and also, each area is different. But guiding, and hinting is good. And there *are* "here's the formula" sites out there! :-) Well, there's my 2 cents +. Kandice, don't think you are ranting. You are giving an opinion. If we can work together, this is great! As I posted over there, it's not so much a thing of price fixing/etc, but we need to come up with a way to work together, and to value our work. No matter what level! Mary :) Anyway. Ranting again. Time to stop now before someone whacks me with a tomato!! -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I just read your reply on WC. I thought you did it very well. And you do make some really good points. I too have mixed feelings about this whole thing. I don't yet sell beads, hope to one day. I do make pieces with lampwork beads. I understand wanting to get full value for your work, but I feel uneasy with the idea that "everyone" should do XXXXX. I know a beadmaker that won't sell on ebay at all - to her that is undervaluing her work, so she only sells at shows and galleries. If that works for her great, but for some people ebay is what works. One of the problems with selling art is that it is sooooo subjective. I've gotten beads at what I thought was a steal, I've paid full value for some beads, and I've probably over paid for others. To someone else what I thought was a steal they may think is a fair price, etc. I also understand that it's easy to undervalue your own work (still working on that with my jewelry), and some may not even realize that they are doing it. Lots of shades of gray in this - it's surely not just black and white - raise our prices and all will be well with the bead world. Kathy K "Kandice Seeber" wrote in message ... ***sigh*** and I just posted a response over there. Time to go hide in the bunker. Why the hell am I a glutton for punishement? Seriously, I think I bring up some good points, but that whole thread is so full of "Amen!" "I'm in!" "You go girl!"and "Me too" posts that I am afraid mine will not be well received. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net I have mixed feelings about that whole thread. On the one hand, the intentions are good, I am sure. The people are mostly nice, hardworking and well-intentioned. On the other hand, price fixing is illegal and annoying. I agree about pricing your things in such a way that it mirrors value and hard work. However, I don't agree with a huge group governing that, or trying to control things. But I am pretty anti-government, so maybe it's just that. :) Or maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet today, and I am cranky. -- Kandice Seeber Air & Earth Designs http://www.lampwork.net Rita says: "....when 1/2 of the market is undercutting themselves it has not only a trickle down effect but a landslide." This is what I've always said. It's true, it affects all our sister and brother beadmakers, jewelrymakers --- and artists as a whole population. The way I said it recently was deemed unacceptable by some -- but I've been fighting for this for a long, long, long time. People just don't listen when you say "Increase your prices, because it affects us all." I wanted to be dramatic because the message doesn't get through people's heads, as is evidenced by this thread on Wet Canvas. "The Beadmakers' Liberation Front"? Drama. You have to paint in bright colors for people to GET IT. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers
buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit. I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears (eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads more from the perspective of their being art glass. I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL! My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want... the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and collectors. Tink On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber" wrote: A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. |
On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:10:16 GMT, Tinkster wrote:
This is a really important point. The vast majority of my customers buy my beads to collect and display, not to turn into jewelry. And not to turn into jewelry to resell for a profit. I've found that a lot of the people who buy my beads are collecting them in the same manner one might collect... um.... teddy bears (eeeeeek) or something. I think it's cool, and I really relate to that, because I don't make or wear jewelry and enjoy lampwork beads more from the perspective of their being art glass. I think Rita's idea is a good one, but I agree that the whole concept smacks of price fixing. I've been trying not to say anything about this, but I can't hold my tongue any longer. LOL! My personal opinion is, make what you want... charge what you want... the cream will rise to the top. There are a lot of lampworkers out there getting prices they are happy with. There are certainly plenty of custormers out there ready and willing to pay what they need to to get what they want. Therefore.... I guess the key is to examine your work, improve your work, move forward, create what makes you happy and hope that it strikes a chord in the hearts of designers and collectors. Tink On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 03:15:54 -0800, "Kandice Seeber" wrote: A lot of lampwork buyers on ebay are collectors who are fine with paying a higher price, so you are having to compete with them for auctions, as well. Thank you Tink.... Now I do not feel guilty one bit about all the lovely items I have just sitting here looking beautiful! I didn't want to make them into jewelry or sell them and now I know it's ok for me to just look at them and enjoy them. :)) I am very happy now and my stress level went WAY down! Harry My Ebay Auctions are at http://snipurl.com/3okw |
They felt that my wholesale prices were too high, so they couldn't sell them
retail after their markup. I sell the same beads, with my retail markup (double my wholesale price) with no problems at other shows. I wasn't going to give them an accounting lesson. One less store with my beads in it isn't the end of the world. KarenK "KDK" wrote in message ... Did they think your wholesale price was too high? or were they upset because you were selling items less than they were? Kathy K "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
Thanks Tina! I've worked hard to get my math right and price my beads
reasonably. I'm earning what I need, never losing money, AND taking into account all of my costs in the process. More is always great, of course, but I'm very content with my steady sales. KarenK "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076481429.873981@prawn... Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too. Tina "Karen_AZ" wrote in message news:zvhWb.37503$QJ3.31997@fed1read04... "Christina Peterson" wrote in message news:1076469073.78773@prawn... Am I the only person who works with lampwork beads who faces this problem? Tina It's interesting, my show partner and I had a run-in with some small store owners over the weekend. We both had our beads priced for wholesale since it was primarily a wholesale show. I was willing to take a deeper discount for a reasonable quantity, and said so (30% off $300 purchase). These ladies were very unhappy with this and quite vocal about it, saying we were obviously unwilling to work with them. Well, yes, we were. I'm not cutthroating my own income to make their store sales easier. Nobody else complained, and I came home to 3 large orders, so obviously I'm doing something right. I do appreciate their position, but I think they had difficulty in even perceiving mine. I politely told them I had beads in several stores already, sold at the same prices. If their local market can't handle that, there's not much I can do about it. -- KarenK www.desertdreameraz.com Ebay: http://stores.ebay.com/id=62631780&ssPageName=L2 Justbeads: http://www.justbeads.com/search/ql.cfm?s=DesertDreamer |
One really big thing about pricing beads is how they will be used.
If I'm only going to buy beads for myself, as an end product, then paying retail is a reasonable thing for me to to for those few beads. But if I'm going to put them in jewelry to sell I have to work it differently. This is what I was thinking. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
Karen, your BINs are very reasonably priced. I can't imagine your wholesale
being anything but a good deal. As for 30% off $300, that's a good deal too. What she said. ~~ Sooz ------- "Those in the cheaper seats clap. The rest of you rattle your jewelry." John Lennon (1940 - 1980) Royal Varieties Performance ~ Dr. Sooz's Bead Links http://airandearth.netfirms.com/soozlinkslist.html |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:32 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CraftBanter.com