Is there a name for this knot?
 

Hi folks

I recently learned to do a bowline and decided that it didn't seem
very secure, so I 'improved' on it (in my humble opinion, anyway!).
The result is in an admittedly rather primitive illustration at:

http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/jr/knots/myknot.gif

Does anyone know if this knot already has a name? As it seems pretty
simple, I would expect so.

Thanks :-)

John.

"Icarus" wrote in message ...
Hi folks

I recently learned to do a bowline and decided that it didn't seem
very secure, ...

hi John,

There is a picture and opinion about it in another post today
(from Greg Layton ), subject: Adjustable Grip
Hitch)

it is called the Inline Figure-Eight Loop or Directional Figure-Eight
Knot

His statement: "For the average person who only wants to learn one
strong loop knot, my choice would be the Alpine Butterfly because it
has more advantages and fewer disadvantages than the Inline
Figure-Eight Loop."

The bowline is not that bad at all, but you are right, do knot thrust
a knot,

ben

"Icarus" wrote:
Hi folks

I recently learned to do a bowline and decided that it didn't seem
very secure, so I 'improved' on it (in my humble opinion, anyway!).
The result is in an admittedly rather primitive illustration at:

http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/jr/knots/myknot.gif

Does anyone know if this knot already has a name? As it seems pretty
simple, I would expect so.


Hi John,

This knot appears in "The Ashley Book of Knots" numbered 1058. He
calls it the "Single Bowline on the Bight". He says, "This knot, in
appearance at least, appears to have a better claim to the title than
the others."

As a general observation, the name of a particular knot can often
raise some strong emotions and intense debate. However, the name of a
knot can obviously change with language, can change with who is using
it (e.g. fishermen or sailors)and can change with geography. I mean
(would you believe it!) there are parts of the world where a Reef Knot
is called a Square Knot. WELL!! :-). For your knot, between knotters,
I think ABOK #1058 is a good, unambiguous name.

Congrats for independently discovering this knot. - Brian.

Ps. Since my above attempt at humour may be an "in-joke", let me say
that the Reef Knot, ABOK #1204, is often called the Square Knot in the
USA. Hmmm... perhaps, it would be more correct to say, ABOK #1204 is
called the Reef Knot or the Square Knot. The name choosen is
influenced by where you live. :-).

All the best - Brian.

It is what Clifford Ashley would call a SINGLE BOWLINE on the bight,
as can be seen in the Ashley Book of Knots, knot #1057 and a similar
form in knot #1058. No, it's not really a variation on the bowline,
but there you go.

It's not usually employed as an end loop, but it is more secure than a
bowline, but that's not saying all that much. If you are looking for
even more secure end loops, I'll mention a couple for your
consideration if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/zeppelinloop.html
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/waterbowline.html

Cheers,
roo



"Icarus" wrote in message ...
Hi folks

I recently learned to do a bowline and decided that it didn't seem
very secure, so I 'improved' on it (in my humble opinion, anyway!).
The result is in an admittedly rather primitive illustration at:

http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/jr/knots/myknot.gif

Does anyone know if this knot already has a name? As it seems pretty
simple, I would expect so.

Thanks :-)

John.

roo wrote:

It is what Clifford Ashley would call a SINGLE BOWLINE on the
bight,
as can be seen in the Ashley Book of Knots, knot #1057 and a
similar
form in knot #1058. No, it's not really a variation on the
bowline,
but there you go.

It's not usually employed as an end loop, but it is more
secure than a
bowline, but that's not saying all that much. If you are
looking for
even more secure end loops, I'll mention a couple for your
consideration if you haven't already seen them:

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/zeppelinloop.html
http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/waterbowline.html

Cheers,
roo

Interesting comments roo, and thanks for the recommendations.

Brian Grimley wrote:

"Icarus" wrote:
Hi folks

I recently learned to do a bowline and decided that it didn't
seem very secure, so I 'improved' on it (in my humble
opinion, anyway!). The result is in an admittedly rather
primitive illustration at:

http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/jr/knots/myknot.gif

Does anyone know if this knot already has a name? As it
seems pretty simple, I would expect so.


Hi John,

This knot appears in "The Ashley Book of Knots" numbered 1058.
He calls it the "Single Bowline on the Bight". He says, "This
knot, in appearance at least, appears to have a better claim
to the title than the others."

As a general observation, the name of a particular knot can
often raise some strong emotions and intense debate. However,
the name of a knot can obviously change with language, can
change with who is using it (e.g. fishermen or sailors)and can
change with geography. I mean (would you believe it!) there
are parts of the world where a Reef Knot is called a Square
Knot. WELL!! :-). For your knot, between knotters, I think
ABOK #1058 is a good, unambiguous name.

Congrats for independently discovering this knot. - Brian.

Ps. Since my above attempt at humour may be an "in-joke", let
me say that the Reef Knot, ABOK #1204, is often called the
Square Knot in the USA. Hmmm... perhaps, it would be more
correct to say, ABOK #1204 is called the Reef Knot or the
Square Knot. The name choosen is influenced by where you live.
:-).

Thanks for the information and education :-)

John.

(Brian Grimley) wrote in message . com...
I have also seen this knot call the
"Three Quarter Figure of Eight Loop". However, it seems to me the
"Inline Figure of Eight Loop" is now the most commonly used name.


hi John,

I remember another name for this knot:
"directional figure eight on a bight"
from tests on:
http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/test...sts_11_98.html

The test results are interesting too
(look for "11/23 test #4" and following 3 tests).

I take the test results as a warning; the loop may seem very "secure",
but it is not all that "safe" to use it, since: "the bight had grown
much smaller".

So I repeat after Tom Moyer:
"Discussion: Wrong again - the conventional wisdom seems either to be
in error or not to matter for this knot".

ben

ben wrote:
(Brian Grimley) wrote in message
. com... I
have also seen this knot call the
"Three Quarter Figure of Eight Loop". However, it seems to me
the "Inline Figure of Eight Loop" is now the most commonly
used name.


hi John,

I remember another name for this knot:
"directional figure eight on a bight"
from tests on:
http://www.xmission.com/~tmoyer/test...sts_11_98.html

The test results are interesting too
(look for "11/23 test #4" and following 3 tests).

I take the test results as a warning; the loop may seem very
"secure",
but it is not all that "safe" to use it, since: "the bight had
grown
much smaller".

So I repeat after Tom Moyer:
"Discussion: Wrong again - the conventional wisdom seems
either to be
in error or not to matter for this knot".

That testing site is quite interesting - thanks for the URL. The
'figure eight on a bight' knots seem to hold up quite well according
to the comment at the end (not that I'm likely to ever subject a rope
to anything near its breaking strength!).

Cheers ben.

"Icarus" wrote in message ...
That testing site is quite interesting - thanks for the URL. The
'figure eight on a bight' knots seem to hold up quite well according
to the comment at the end (not that I'm likely to ever subject a rope
to anything near its breaking strength!).


hi

the 'figure eight on a bight' seem to hold up quite bad when:
"the load was applied not to the knots, but to the rope ...
Result: The "correctly" tied knot had also slipped considerably by the
time it failed..."

OK, when in use as an end loop knot, it seems to hold up

ben